yes, this is what I think about in my spare time

[bedlamsbard]

Gods damn the Narnia timeline anyway. (Now we're on the England side.)

So -- okay, Digory Kirke is born 1888, Polly Plummer 1889, and The Magician's Nephew takes place in 1900, forty years before The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe in 1940. World War I began in the summer of 1914 and ended in late 1918 in western Europe. The influenza outbreak of 1918 was in...uh, 1918, and 1/3 of the world's population was infected.

Okay. So. In 1900 Digory would have been twelve and Polly eleven. In 1914 Digory would have been 26 and Polly 25; Digory would probably have joined up to fight, but if he didn't, he would have been drafted in 1916 (unless he was in a priority occupation, but I'm leaning towards no, if only because by 1940 he's referred to as "professor"). Polly would have worked, or possibly joined the military in a non-combatant role, either as a nurse or something else. Clearly they both survived both the war and the flu, since they're around in 1949.

In 1940, Digory would be 52 and Polly 51. In 1949, they are 61 and 60, respectively.

The books don't say if they've ever been back to Narnia post-Magician's Nephew; I think the books imply they haven't, but LWW may imply that Digory, at least, has, or at least has tried to go there through the wardrobe. It's probable that if they did, they played no other major part in the development or history of Narnia. (I am disregarding the bit in LB where Tirian remembers them, because that seems highly unlikely and also does not mesh with my Narnia. My fic, my choice of canon.)

In conclusion, I have no point, but wanted to get the numbers and the years/events down on paper.

Comments

[alexseanchai]

Define 'the bit in LB when Tirian remembers them'. Is that when he meets them after getting tossed in the stable? Because if so, that happens after he sees them and the Pevensies and so forth because of whatever it was that let him see them and vice versa and prompted them to send him help, so it doesn't at all imply that they might have been in Narnia at any time other than MN.

[alyndra]

Huh. I always thought of the professor as older than that, more like 70-80. I guess to a kid adults are all old.

I just (finally) reread LWW, and I never thought Digory or Polly got back, but then Digory does know a few things about how the whole thing seems to work so it's possible. Mostly I wanted to reread the part where they decide to go on past the lamppost because it is immensely superior to the movie's abrupt ending.

[bedlamsbard]

In Chapter Five, "How Help Came to the King," when Eustace and Jill rescue Tirian:

"Well now you know who we are, Sire," he said. "And it was like this. The Professor and Aunt Polly had got all us friends of Narnia together --"

"I know not these names, Eustace," said Tirian.

"They're the two who came into Narnia at the very beginning, the day all the animals learned to talk."

"By the Lion's Mane," cried Tirian. "Those two! The Lord Digory and the Lady Polly! From the dawn of the world! And still alive in your place? The wonder and the glory of it! But tell me, tell me."

Huh, I thought it came up earlier, when Tirian is recounting his history silently to himself, but I was wrong! (I would have mentioned specifically where in the post, but I was at the library and not at home.)

Yeah, there's never any implication they've been in Narnia aside from MN, but I think the movie might imply it a little more. For different values of the word "imply."

[alyndra]

I think it just means 'remembers myths of them'. Which is a long time for even myths to survive.

[lady_songsmith]

2000 years isn't that long for myths, particularly in a literate society. There's the Bible, of course, and we know plenty about Greco-Roman, Egyptian, and Babylonian myths. My Asian timelines aren't as good, but I'd wager a large portion of Chinese mythology goes back further than that.

[bedlamsbard]

I actually thought the professor and Polly were younger! So that was surprising. (It has been a while since I have reread the books, though.)

The part that makes me hesitate is the scene during the credits of LWW where Digory tells Lucy sadly that you can't get back that way (through the wardrobe); he's tried. And -- there's a story there, about how his whole life he's been searching for a way to get back to Narnia (see how excited he is when Peter and Susan bring up Lucy's "imaginary world" to him), and he thinks he's found one -- but no. And how Narnia shapes and destroys lives it's only briefly touched.

[bedlamsbard]

I tend to just write that part off in my own 'verse, largely because the White Witch did a pretty good job at stamping out all memories of Narnia pre-Long Winter...

...although the story could have still survived in Archenland. Huh. *considers*

[snacky]

Man, half the time I think it's better to throw out Lewis's timeline and make it up on your own. I mean. VDT! TAKES PLACE! DURING THE WAR! *FLAILS*

Okay, I'm calm now.

I do think the books imply that Polly and Digory never went back, although I don't think they say it outright. I always interpreted Digory in the movie to have clued in when Peter and Susan told him that Lucy got into Narnia through the wardrobe and he had one of those "aha!" moments because he knew the wardrobe was made from the tree that grew from the Narnian apple, but not that it necessarily was saying he went back.

[alyndra]

Oh, is Narnia only 2,000 years? I stand corrected. I think Lewis must leave intentionally vague things like dates and how literate everybody is. Plus it is weird that there is no mention of Digory and Polly (from inside Narnia, that is) in any of the books between tMN and tLB.

[alyndra]

Of course, Archenland! So easy to forget about Archenland (mutter, mutter, because Lewis did).

[bedlamsbard]

Man, at most points I just throw out the "official" timeline out the window, because most of it makes no sense whatsoever. I just kind of make eyes at it and pick and choose dates that make sense to me. (England, I will mostly accept. Later Narnia, maybe.)

ETA: Perusal of the publish dates in my books add the note that MN was the second to last book to be written, so it's possible/probably that Lewis hadn't considered or conceived Digory and Polly when he was writing LWW, PC, VotDT, and SC.

[bedlamsbard]

Oh, I do throw out Lewis's timeline for most things, because it makes no sense to me whatsoever! That is why my Narnia sort of makes sense, and his does not! I HAVE TO LOGIC OUT LEWIS. I do accept the England timeline, but the Narnian timeline makes me twitch and weep sadly.

...MN was the second to last to be published, so it's entirely possible that Lewis never even thought of them while he was writing the main chronicles. LWW -- I could do something with that, if I wanted.

[alyndra]

The thing is, why does he tell the kids that "Yes, of course you'll get back to Narnia again someday. Once a King in Narnia, always a King in Narnia. But don't go trying to use the same route twice. Indeed, don't try to get there at all. It'll happen when you're not looking for it."

The frustrating thing about this is that I can almost but not quite make it stand as evidence for either case! Somehow he acquired more certainty about travelling between worlds than (I think) he would have had at the end of tMN, but whether he got that knowledge purely from our world, or from a different trip to Narnia, or some other place, I don't know!

Granted I haven't yet got to rereading tMN either, so yay guesswork!

You are absolutely right that there's a story there, perhaps more than one. And I've never seen it overly explored in fanfic, either, maybe once?

[watersword]

Fuck Lewis' timeline. It makes no sense, even internally. None whatsoever. And anything in LB didn't happen.

[bedlamsbard]

There's -- a story there, I think. *prods* A possibility. He knows something, he must.

[bedlamsbard]

Well, I have to accept some things in LB; it's slightly necessary for Dust. And -- I'm willing to accept most of the round numbers post-Long Winter. Not necessarily the dates, but the round numbers. And the England side, I can accept the dates, just not Lewis's blatant disregard for actual history.

[snacky]

I get all twitchy about the timeline in Silver Chair too. Caspian is HOW old? Rilian is HOW old? I kind of think of SC as a story being told hundreds of years later and the details are wrong.

Yeah, I think that kind of comes up from the renumbering of the books. If you read them in the MN first order, you would kind of be like, "So, seriously, where's, say, POLLY been all this time? But if you read them in in the order they were written in, it makes total sense that Lewis didn't put too much thought into Digory or Polly until the last two books - my guess would be that he didn't connect the Professor from LWW with Digory from MN, until he was actually writing MN.

[snacky]

Plus it is weird that there is no mention of Digory and Polly (from inside Narnia, that is) in any of the books between tMN and tLB.

Well, that's a problem that arose with the renumbering of the books in the 90s. Lewis wrote MN and LB last, so Digory and Polly weren't "around" when the other books were written.

Sorry for jumping in, I'm kind of evangelical about reading the books in original publication order, as opposed to the renumbered chronological order. ;)

[bedlamsbard]

Most of the time I just throw out the timeline except for the broadest of outlines. (Except for the fifteen years of the Golden Age, for some reason I never thought of doing that and now it's already too late.)

I mean, I don't particularly have a problem with Polly not being in any of the later books, no more than I do with the Professor not showing up post LWW. Although...huh. That must have been a fun conversation.

[alyndra]

And it needs to be written! *encourages you gently*

[alyndra]

Oh, I knew both sets of numbers when I first read them (in the nineties). I think I followed some combination of them: I know I read LWW first, but after that I couldn't really tell you. Still, you'd think he could have planned better!