maybe you'll make a telmarine king after all / not one like you

[bedlamsbard]

Narnia movieverse conspiracy theory. Let me say this again: movieverse. Why is it specifically movieverse? Because it deals with something's that's not in the books; in fact, it's one of the few things in Prince Caspian that directly contradicts the book Prince Caspian.

Now, on the surface, this seems like what it's put out to be in the movie: kill time for Lucy to find Aslan and wake the trees from slumber. Honestly, I don't believe that anyone's plan was for the loser's army to summarily depart the field. Miraz's clearly wasn't, but I think the movie makes it pretty clear that if Peter had died in the ring, Edmund would have attacked immediately. Narnia did not just come out of hiding in order to go back in, or more likely, get completely slaughtered by the Telmarines, who probably aren't too keen on having a bunch of hostile talking animals and other creatures sitting at their backs. It's one thing when you haven't seen them in generations and they've become legend; it's another thing entirely when you know they're there. Anyway, Miraz's plan is as follows: kill Peter, attack, kill everyone else, probably either kill Caspian in the battle or take Caspian prisoner and publicly execute him for high treason, go back to his castle, rule Narnia. In case of the duel going wrong, his plan changes: have Glozelle shoot Peter, attack, etc., etc. Peter's plan is pretty similar: kill Miraz, wait to see what the reaction is for form's sake -- if the Telmarine army retreats in confusion, go back and hole up in the How and wait for Lucy to come back with reinforcements, but far more likely, if the Telmarine army attacks, do exactly what they do in the movie: attack right back in an all-out, desperate last stand, so when they go down fighting, they at least take as many of the enemy as they can down with them. And because Peter's trying to kill time in order to give Lucy as much as he can, he's probably going to drag the fight out as long as possible. Miraz, on the other hand, just wants to kill this annoying kid and get it over with. When Peter (yes, Peter) suggests single combat in the book, this is exactly what his plan is.

But in the movie, it's Caspian who suggests single combat.

At this point, Caspian still knows very little about Peter. Depending on whether or not we go off Edmund's comment about "a week ago, we were extinct" and when we set the beginning of that week (when Caspian ran away from Miraz's castle? when the Pevensies arrived in Narnia? when the Pevensies met up with the Narnians? when the Narnians attacked the castle?), they've only known each other for a very short amount of time, probably only a matter of days. Depending on how much Caspian actually knows about Narnian legends (and I would wager it's not all that much, whether or not you take my theory that the Telmarines have coopted the Narnian legends about the Golden Age and turned them around for pro-human propaganda), he probably only has a basic understanding of who High King Peter the Magnificent actually was: High King of Narnia, defeated the White Witch/saved Narnia, carries a famous sword, mysteriously vanished. And (correct me if I'm wrong), when he blew Susan's horn, he didn't know that he was calling back the Pevensies. That's a Narnian legend; Professor Cornelius (Doctor Cornelius in the book) didn't tell him so. He only found out afterwards, and at that point he was probably expecting resurrected ghosts or something, not living breathing people. He was certainly not expecting four kids years younger than him, one of whom happened to be the High King of legend.

Caspian is human. He's young, cocky, naive, raised with the expectation of ruling but probably not trained to it, and he's out of his depth. Peter's also human, but he's caught between young and old; there's a mental demarcation where he's been a kid for the past year, and his body is that of a teenager's, but his mind is more or less than of a thirty-year-old army general and sovereign king's. So what he looks like, to Caspian, is a cocky kid who thinks he knows better than everyone else and has taken over everything that Caspian's just beginning to get a handle on. Even worse, he's just gotten a lot of people that Caspian knows killed, and he blames Caspian for it. Peter may be blaming Caspian for being out of his depth, but from what Caspian can tell -- and he's not coming at this from a Narnian's point of view; a Narnian is probably more likely to remember that the Pevensies were just kids the first time they came to Narnia and killed the White Witch and saved the country and so forth (my impression is that Aslan's part in this has been downplayed over the years) -- Peter's just as out of his depth as Caspian is. And worse, he's a real threat to Caspian's throne -- there are probably any number of (likely pretty damn vocal) Narnians that have problems with a Telmarine, even a Narnian-sympathetic, on the throne of Narnia, but Peter's not a Telmarine, he's a Narnian. He's a Narnian with a history of being a good king, a history which has been built up to legendary proportions over the past thousand years of no rulers or bad rulers. At the point where he proposes single combat, he's not necessarily looking at Peter as an ally, he's looking at Peter as a rival. He doesn't necessarily see a need to buy Lucy time to summon Aslan; he's a Telmarine. He doesn't believe in Aslan, or if he does, he probably only believes in Aslan as just another of those mythical Narnian creatures. He probably doesn't believe in walking, talking trees, either. And he doesn't know just how good a swordsman Peter is; note that he isn't in the courtyard during the battle. Legend says that Peter is a fabulous swordsman; legend also says that Peter is a grown man. Which he's clearly not. He does, on the other hand, know exactly how good Miraz is with a sword, and the answer to that is pretty dang good. So why suggest personal combat? He's probably figured out enough about Peter by now to know that Peter will think it's a great idea.

Because Caspian didn't think that Peter had a chance in hell of beating Miraz. He set the duel up to kill Peter.

There is a ninety-nine point nine percent chance that Caspian has no idea how Narnia was run during the Golden Age. (There is also, like, a ninety-nine point eight percent chance that no one else does, either.) Whatever he does or does not know, he knows that by Telmarine law, if Peter doesn't have a child, then the next in line for the throne is his next of kin: Susan. Or possibly Edmund, depending on whether the Telmarines count women in the line of succession or not, but the Narnians almost certainly do, so Caspian will probably leave it at that and call it a day. Note that he isn't there to watch the fight, or at least the beginning of it and yet, since he's the horseman here, wouldn't it be best if he was there to lead the charge whenever it should become necessary? No -- he's going after Susan, the titular heir to the throne of Narnia. It doesn't matter if Lucy gets killed; she's just an impediment to getting the throne, and if she dies wandering around in the woods looking for a talking lion, then, well, so be it. As for Edmund, well, if there should happen to be a battle, as everyone expects there to be, and if he should happen to die in said battle -- well, nobody's going to look too closely at who swung the sword. Killing them himself, in the middle of the How, with Narnians all around them, is not an option -- but here are the Telmarines, so very, very conveniently arrayed for battle, and Peter, who's more than happy to engage in single combat with Miraz. And with Peter, Edmund, and Lucy gone, Caspian is free to marry Susan, which will add Narnian legitimacy to his claim to the throne, and become king of Narnia.

Granted, there still would have been that pesky Telmarine army right there, but Caspian is a Telmarine prince. He's supposed to be the Telmarine king, currently; take Miraz out of the way, somehow, and it probably won't be that hard to convince the army that he's their rightful ruler, especially if he shows up midway through the battle following the duel, or afterwards. The Narnians acknowledge Susan, the Telmarines acknowledge Caspian...marry as soon as possible, get crowned, and Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt and Caspian's king of Narnia.

Except...Peter was a better swordsman than Caspian expected, and when Caspian arrived, the duel was barely half-over. And Peter trusted Caspian, and the Telmarines had plans of their own, and wow, mythical talking lion? Actually exists. With walking trees. Who knew?

Comments

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

Oh hey! How did I miss this? There is not enough rumination on Telmarine conspiracy/intrigue. Your ideas are definitely some interesting food for thought, especially on the Narnian factionalism. And Caspian may have been kept from learning about kingdom-ruling or army-leading, but like so many deprived of real power he's picked up some cunning and has picked up a thing or two from his uncle on how to make things look like accidents. Oh, Caspian, you almost did Miraz proud.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

It makes so much sense, seriously. Almost, almost, almost -- if this is how Telmarines have gained and lost power for a thousand years, then this sort of thing is going to be in textbooks, even prettied up. And it's not the most elegant plan in the world -- I doubt Caspian has thought as far ahead as "what to do with the attacking Telmarine army" except for some vague ideas about being the crown prince -- but Caspian's young, he's inexperienced, he's ambitious...and he has a favored rival.

(Seriously, given what they did with Peter in the movie, having him propose single combat would have been perfectly in character, so having Caspian come up with the idea...)

I am not sure if I believe it or not, but I almsot do.

[swift-tales.livejournal.com]

It does make so much incredible sense!
I mean, Caspian grew up in Telmarine Court, while he probably didn't get any concrete lessons on how to run the country or how to lead an army (as you say), he did grow up in cour life. And as wel all know, court life is probably filled with intrigue and winning the favors of those in power. It's a breeding place for cunning and backstabing and turning 'convenient' events into your favour. I bet Caspian picked up a thing or to.
After that, it shouldn't be so extremely difficult to transfer that cunning unto how to become further in power with the Narnias, garner support and defeat the Telmarine army.
It's a perfect plan, and even if it turned out that Peter could defeat Miraz and Aslan exists just like the walking trees (like it did), then Caspian still wins. Because Peter can't stay in Narnia and with Aslan's support Caspian will probably be awknowledged by the majority of Narnians as King and because he's a Telmarine Prince/King... He'll get support from the Telmarines.
(well not all of them, I don't think everybody would be happy with suddenly having to share their country with talking animals who probably won't be too friendly for a while and I can't imagine that all Narnias will want to co-exist peacefully with people who've tried to genocide them)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I am this close to considering this part of my personal canon, given Caspian's attitude towards Peter up before the duel. I mean, the assassination gig? Even before Caspian learned that Miraz killed his father, he was probably aware of similar events in Telmarine history. It's acceptable, just not...socially acceptable.

Post-Telmarine Narnia probably has slightly fewer problems than post-White Witch Narnia, but its problems are entirely different.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

You're the first other person I've seen who's mentioned this. I thought it an interesting change from the book. In PC the book, Peter was very take-charge in a friendly way, but left no doub that he *was* in charge and going to do this thing-because Miraz would think Caspian just a kid,etc.

But in the movie, this takes place after the summoning of Jadis, where Peter gets a shock-after that, you can see his attitude changes a bit and it's less *I'm* going to save Narnia and more *we're* going to save her. Caspian, I think, gets a bit more co-operative, but that could be to hide his nefarious plans. *grins*

Peter even says something like "I don't suppose they'll keep to the treaty", can't remember the exact phrasing; but he knew, going in, that even if he won, the Telmarines would still fight, because they had at least one aggressive lord who wouldn't want to surrender. I think if it was just General Glozelle, he'd be ok with dealing with Caspian; but Lord Sopaspian wasn't going down, nope. Anyone who thought that scene was about actually winning the war was naive, and I'm talking both audience *and* characters.

I got really pissed at them having Caspian go riding off in the middle of the single-most important fight of his life (!) to go "save" Susan. They let her have just enough to show she was a good fighter, then made her stand there staring while a horse rode her down (instead of pivoting to follow her target, or rushing to get behind a tree, something!), and turned her into a victim to be rescued. The *only* reason for Caspian to turn up then is to save her so he could look like a hero to the audience. I hate it when I see obvious Plot Devices.

The Telmarines obviously *don't* understand the Narnian government-Miraz called Edmund "Prince" and was taken aback by his correction. I loved that scene. You could tell Edmund was about to laugh in his face the whole time, and egging him on to take the challenge...and the general/lords dog-piling on, too...*laughs*

I *was* surprised that Caspian hadn't figured out his uncle killed his father before this. It would be the obvious thing to think of, especially once there was an assasination attempt on his *own* life.

I'm sure Caspian would be disappointed to know that if he *had* married Susan, she would still have been Queen Susan, the ruler of Narnia, and he'd have been...Prince Caspian, the Royal Consort. At least in Narnian eyes, so a marriage to get the throne wouldn't have been quite the solution he'd have expected. Right? *prods you*

Plus, Edmund would totally have escaped. His griffin friend would have snatched him up and taken him to safety or something...he'd have found Lucy, Asland or not. REBELS IN THE WOODS! \o/ *laughs*

Not so cut and dried, dear Prince. *cackles*

There is an intimation, from what Cornelius said, that movie!Caspian *wasn't* as well-informed as book!Caspian; and book!Caspian wasn't all that well-informed, just old tales. Mostly, Cornelius did his best to keep Caspian from being spoiled rotten. *shrugs*

I think Caspian could very well have been thinking along the lines you're saying. But coming back, watching Peter fight and put his whole heart and soul into it, and watching Edmund and Susan love and fear for him, and knowing brave little Lucy's on a mission of her own...and seeing his nasty uncle brought low...I think he's doing some really deep thinking, there.

I personally am of Edmund's mind and would have run Miraz through.Chivalry's great when you have the luxury for it, but NOT NOW. We're having a war, here! And Caspian, you've been bitching about it, so KEEL HIM, KEEL HIM NOW!

But noooo...! *huffs*

Fine. Be all noble and shit.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I am almost, almost convinced of this being part of my personal canon. Because Caspian's just a little too...complacent, in regards to Peter finally taking over. And he was talking to Cornelius, and Cornelius, dwarf blood aside, is definitely a Telmarine, and he definitely wanted Caspian on the throne, not any of the Pevensies (or at least that was the impression I got from the movie). So I could see them coming up with the plot together; Cornelius probably has access to all Telmarine records from the time, but those aren't going to be very accurate at best. I certainly don't think Cornelius is as well-informed on Narnian history as the Narnians.

Yeah, and then Peter sends Susan up there to put arrows in anyone who looks cross-eyed at him, so all the Pevensies clearly know the score at this point, although I doubt the Narnians are really considering an actual battle as anything but a last option. (Like cupiscent said: Peter is a jaded professional; the New Narnians are cheerful amateurs who are clinging to honor for lack of anything else.)

I don't think Caspian realizes that Queen Susan is actually Queen Susan in her own right, though. What we do know from both the movie and the book is that the Telmarines inherit through the male line (otherwise whether Miraz has a son or a daughter wouldn't be an issue), so it's likely that he just thinks the Narnians do as well. I really don't think he's going to think about that too deeply; it's not the sort of thing that's going to be on his mind. And one way or another, the Telmarines outnumber the Narnians, who may not remember that Susan's queen in her own right as well.

And, of course, things don't go as planned. I think there's a pretty good chance that Caspian seriously underestimates all the Pevensies, even after the White Witch fiasco.

Seriously, after Caspian refuses to kill Miraz, I get the impression that Peter and Edmund are looking at each other and just going, "Well, that was dumb."

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I don't know that anyone expected the Pevensies to take the thrones, though. They were called to come *save* Narnia, to help them fight the Telmarines; and Peter clearly expected to be in charge of the army. But I think it was *Caspian* who was alarmed by them being there, and so much different than he'd expected. It's one thing to talk about calling the Kings and Queens of old; it's another to have them delivered on your doorstep!

They were clearly battling for dominance in every encounter, and I frankly agreed with Peter most of the time. He would have killed Caspian in the woods, at their first meeting; I think the attack on the castle a good idea, and it would have worked, too, the only flaw being that once the plans *were* disrupted, they should have retreated immediately. I couldn't help but wonder who the hell's brilliant idea it was for the tiny army there to trap themselves in Aslan's How-a place that was easy to surround and be starved out, as Edmund pointed out. Burned out, flooded out, perhaps? All the Telmarines had to do was encircle them and wait.

I can reluctantly see why Peter let Caspian have a chance at Miraz-he's acknowledging that the guy had a claim on him, perhaps better than his, and certainly, it would be a good idea if a Telmarine royal was the one who killed another Telmarine royal. But I wanted to smack the shit out of Caspian. This wasn't revenge, this was an execution; if he didn't want to do it himself, he could have hollered for a few archers to come and "execute" the prisoner for his crimes against their mutual people. Not just walk away!

If you look at that scene, I love the way Edmund is just *there*, the whole time, very intent on Peter. Giving him sharp advice, putting his arm back in place, and "save it for later"-because Peter is NOT going to die, Edmund will glare him into safety. After Caspian lets Miraz live and walks away, Edmund's all beaming and patting his back...now you can read that as the moviemaker's probably intended, that Edmund is proud of Caspian for being noble and shit. But considering they never spoke to each other the whole movie (!), you could also take it as extreme sarcasm. Well done, asshole, look at yet another diplomatic problem you've dumped in our laps! *laughs*

And I loved it when they were being overcome and Edmund draws his sword, looks at Peter and kind of gestures...he's there for his brother, side by side, and will follow him into hell...and Peter leads the charge.

While Caspian falls over a lot...I saw the movie four times, to look for and compare certain things. I laughed a lot at certain points.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone was thinking about ruling until the end; they're all too focused on winning. But if Peter hadn't figured out that Aslan was going to send them away -- and I think he did figure it out after the White Witch fiasco; he figured out that his time has come and gone again and this is someone else's time now, even if he never said it -- there could have been very, very large problems.

The flaw in their plans being that Caspian was an idiot, of course. *rolls eyes* My main concern with that plan was that they should have landed more paratroopers; we saw that they had more griffins. Land all the dwarves! Send the entire troop of mice into the castle! Land everyone the griffins can carry! Then attack from inside and outside. (I was extremely happy to see that they had military consultants, because Narnian military strategy actually makes sense, as compared to, say, Middle-Earth military strategy.)

I think the Narnians' plan with the How -- I doubt it was Caspian's idea, but seriously, the only Narnians who actually know military strategy, real military strategy and not just raiding parties and resistance fighters and such forth, are the Pevensies -- was that it was a sacred place and hopefully the magic of Narnia could protect them. Also, it's beyond the woods, in a region that the Telmarines are supposed to be terrified of going. So not the best place ever, but not the worst, either.

My theory in regards to the botched execution is that Narnian kings kill their own criminals; by letting Caspian at Miraz, Peter is acknowledging that Caspian has a right to the throne of Narnia. It's a more subtle version of handing over the sword at the end. Of course, Caspian doesn't get the symbolism, so he botches it. *rolls eyes*

As I think the Pevensies figured out pretty early on in their reign, nobility is overrated. And I love Edmund in PC. (On the other hand, I never want to write from his POV again. This is the five-POV fic, by the way. Deathdeathdeath!)

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I think a large part of my problem with Caspian in the movie is that Ben was too old for the role. He's not a young boy, or a teen-he's clearly an adult man in his mid-twenties (I think he's 26); and given that he *was* raised as the heir until his cousin was born, he's far too old to be as naive as he was. However, I liked that they kept that tiny selfish edge to him-in the books, Caspian was often inclined to do what he wanted and then think about his duties; and I think his insistence of trying to get revenge in the movie during the castle attack rang very true. I hate that the movie's attitude seemed to be like Peter was being unreasonable. I'll grant that once the plans were blown, they should have aborted the attack but damn. One swift, hard strike with little collateral damage to end the war, as oopposed to a probable months-long siege that would starve them out and get most of them killed? I know what I'd pick, as a soldier!

I thought the attack was well-done. It wasn't supposed to be a frontal assault; and though they had more forces, they needed to leave some at the How to protect their assests (vulnerable followers, food supplies, spare weaponry, medicines, fuel, etc) in case they had to fall back. So I don't think they needed more soldiers in the foray, really. The success of the plan depended upon everyone doing their part. Well, Edmund did his; the gryphons, mice, and other first wave members did theirs...except for Caspian. Bad enough he had to go for Cornelius, but then he just HAD to try and (waffle on about) kill Miraz, unable to commit (worse than Hamlet!) to doing anything.

And then what annoys me is how after the plans were blown and Peter, desperate, keeps to them anyways because he's got to DO SOMETHING-and *then* Susan and Caspian support him and help open the gate. That's the one time they should have said no and dragged him away.

I can't help but wonder what might have happened if, say, Caspian had been put in charge of the torch signal, and Edmund entrusted with opening the gate. Once the force was inside they would have been able to quietly sneak in and attack the barracks while most of the soldiers were asleep.

Myself, I would ride on the *back* of the gryphons, not in their claws. I'd be afraid somebody would drop me out of pain or startlement, you know? "Ouch-oh, shit, Your Majesty!" *laughs*


I do think far more attention was paid to what the centaurs thought than should have been. Yes, they're fighters-but as you say, nobody's really trained in strategy in modern Narnia any more and I think they were overestimated. *shrugs*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I don't have a problem with movie Caspian being as old as he is -- I think it actually works better than if he'd been a kid. I mean, it's never explicitly stated how old he is -- I'd guess early twenties -- but I really like the contrast between his inexperience and his age, and Peter's age and experience. And people are that naive; just because he's in his twenties doesn't mean he knows anything about the world, especially since Miraz probably kept him very, very sheltered.

Oh, I don't think they needed more soldiers, I think they should have put more of the ones they had outside the gates inside -- a two-pronged attack in the halls of the castle rather than the vulnerable courtyard. (Actually, this is probably what Peter originally planned, because the courtyard is vulnerable and he would have known it.) He probably had Caspian make him plans of the castle from memory, since Caspian's likely the only one who's been inside.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. A bigger attack force in the halls, working from inside out, with guerilla tactics...the griffins wouldn't have been able to carry the heavy forces, like the centaurs and Minotaurs, but more mice & dwarfs, yes. Though if the gate had been opened when it was supposed to be, *before* the alarm, it would have been possible for them to get inside and start working inward, too. Not quite as good, but better than what happened...

It seems to me that the plans were a bastard compromise between what Peter (and probably Edmund) wanted, and what Caspian held out for, likely with Susan's support. Plus, even though the Narnians were working together, there's only so much trust that they could be expected to be coaxed into, working with allies they hate. I don't know that I'd want to be in close quarters with them.


There weren't enough Narnians to take on the Telmarines in a blow-for-blow fight, before *or* after the failed coup, anyways. Once the element of surprise and secrecy was gone, I don't see how they could have won...though a plain hunting horn would have been smart to take with them, for calling retreat. More of them could have gotten out.

I think the failed summoning of Jadis was a huge wake-up call for both Peter and Caspian. After that, they stopped squabbling for dominance and worked together; it seemed to help Caspian focus and Peter to accept that others have a stake in this, too, he doesn't have to save Narnia by himself. Of course, by then they were boxed into the How.


I saw that movie 4 times. Probably would have seen it more, but it left the theaters. *laughs* I guess 4 times of watching it makes the small exasperations BIGGER.

Edmund should have had more scenes. I wonder what they'd have done if he'd been captured at the castle? That and the parley scene, where he was very vulnerable, shaming Miraz into the duel...I'm surprised there aren't more fics being spun off those 2 pivotal points.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. Or airborne archers, like we see in the final battle -- they could have picked off the crossbowmen. Of course, Peter didn't commit all his troops (because he's not an idiot), so they probably left the majority of the archers back at the How, because when you're in danger of being besieged, you leave the archers at the fort and take the cavalry/infantry to war. The How isn't exactly as defensible as a castle, but it could probably have been held for some time with just archers. (And Lucy, I'm sure, has experience holding a castle. I doubt Peter left her behind just because she's the youngest; she has as much experience as any of the others.)

My assumption regarding the Narnians is that a lot of the old rivalries have fallen apart in the face of a new enemy. It doesn't matter that the minotaurs and the centaurs are traditional enemies or what not; that was a thousand years ago, and at this point it doesn't matter what race they are, it matters that they're all Narnians. Of course, they're not an army, and they're probably so undisciplined that Peter doubtless spends his spare time knocking his head against a wall and wishing for his old officers back, but hey, on the bright side, the old rivalries are gone! Anyone that wants to hold on to them instead of fighting their new enemies would be dead a long time since -- they can't afford mixed allegiances. (Because we saw how well that worked.)

I saw it twice, and I kept meaning to go a third time, but after two months it finally left theatres!

Uh, Peter would have stormed the castle all by himself? Seriously speaking, I'm sure Peter has contingency plans for everything -- it depends on how Miraz reacts, and what he'll do with Edmund. He's human, so he might hesitate to kill him, or at least wait and do it publicly -- eh, it's Miraz, he might have tried the deal of marching Edmund out with the army and putting a knife to his throat, threatening to kill him unless Narnia surrenders. I think he'd want to keep him alive for negotiating purposes -- it depends on if he believes Edmund is really King Edmund of Narnia or not. If it came down to Peter trading Caspian for Edmund...well, then, there's a question. Night attack on the Telmarine encampment to get Edmund out, probably.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Tribal differences don't usually resolve themselves that neatly, despite what reason tells us people should do. Sadly. Look at the Middle East, at Africa...fighting for how many centuries? Millenia! Various other trouble spots have endemic problems between ethnic groups, like in the Balkans. It would have to really be something to get the Narnian factions to stop sniping at each other, and breaking into quarrels in the How's close quarters, and worrying about friendly fire in the field, etc.


I don't think they left Lucy behind because she's the youngest. But, no matter how much experience she might have, she *is* the most physically vulnerable right now. She wouldn't be able to pull herself up on a horse easily, if she needed to; she wouldn't be able to run as fast or as far, to keep up; she couldn't fight hand to hand with a grown man, etc. Plus, somebody with authority needed to be at the How to keep an eye on things-you can't send *all* your leaders into the field at once.


Re: Edmund being captured. I think Peter would trade Caspian for Edmund in a heartbeat. But I think...Caspian might be willing to go, if only because he'd feel some responsibility. He's not a *bad* guy, just...not High King Peter.

Of course, that's assuming that Edmund doesn't engineer his own escape. I think it would be rather anticlimactic for them to go charging to the rescue, and making sneaky, complicated plans, only to meet up with Edmund already on his way back to camp. *laughs*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

This is true. *thoughtful* And Peter keeps giving Caspian information that's delivered in tones of "you idiot, everyone knows that, so

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<i.don't>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

This is true. *thoughtful* And Peter keeps giving Caspian information that's delivered in tones of "you idiot, everyone knows that, so <i.don't do it</i>" and Caspian just goes, "But they're all Narnians!" and Peter beats his head into a wall and fingers his swordhilt meaningfully.

Right, exactly. I hate to reference my own fic, especially one that's not posted yet, but the entire first thousand words or so of "On a Summer Morning" is Lucy musing on this. <i>Getting left behind this time isn’t because she’s the youngest, or because she’s a girl, or because she doesn’t have her favored weapons. It’s because there always has to be someone left behind just in case the worst comes to pass.</i> Because Peter may be cocky, but he's not stupid, and he knows to the inch everything his siblings can do and where they'll best be used. (Of course, the question is also: did anyone in the How <i>listen</i> to her?)

*snort* Peter would knock Caspian out, truss him up, sling him over his back and walk into Miraz's camp. "Here's your nephew. Give me my brother."

Or they meet halfway. "What are you doing with Caspian, Pete?" "Well, I was going to trade him for you, but I see that's been taken care of." "Yeah, I traded a couple Telmarines for myself. They should be waking up anytime now." "Maybe we should go, then." "I was just about to suggest that. No, don't leave Caspian here, Pete, take him with us." "Do I have to?" "Unfortunately."

That would be so typical, of course. Edmund strolling casually through the woods, hands in his pockets.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

The Narnians that Caspian has met probably *do* look more unified than they are, because *he's* a Telmarine. They may be willing to make arrangements with him, even come to like and/or trust him; but they'd be aware that he's not one of them, and so would he.

Plus, I bet the presence of the Kings and Queens make the people feel really NARNIAN, very aware of themselves *as* a people...and reminded of things and grudges semi-forgotten and forgiven. Sort of crystallizing the former heavy-handed grumbling about "you lot" "yeah, yeah, blow me" into aggressive posturing and the occasional fistfight...they're all enclosed in that relatively small space together.

It would take some strong handling to get them all to settle down. That could be a large part of why Peter's irritated with Caspian (along-side any UST you might like to toss in there *grins*)-he's all "STOP fucking challenging me, you little bastard, or we could very well have a bloodbath in here!". Edmund's all reasonable, "Well, the young pup doesn't know any better, does he? So TEACH him!" *thwaps Peter upside the head*

*laughs*


We NEED and storming-to-the-rescue!Peter, escaping-on-his-own!Edmund fic. Yes, we DO. \o/


I'm sure most of the Narnians would listen to Lucy. It seems like most of the really big, aggressive ones like the Minotaurs and Centaurs were taken with the attack party. But she's got mythic status in her own right, she's a cute young girl who can turn puppy eyes on the tough guys and melt 'em (ha!)-and remember that she took part in the planning council and made pointed comments and nobody laughed at her input. Peter didn't agree, but he didn't put her down. Trumpkin was the only one who *knowingly* regarded her as a "little girl", and he doesn't believe in Aslan much.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like that. A minotaur and a centaur (they seem fairly likely to have a rivalry) getting into a fight and Peter wading in and pulling them apart and shouting at them to remember they're at war, and if they're not too busy fighting each other, they have an actual common enemy, so why don't they take their damn country back before going back to their quarrels? While Caspian goes, "OH MY GOD WHAT IS GOING ON I DO NOT UNDERSTAND."

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I imagine Caspian says that a LOT.


Yeah, Peter's got the big, tough Minotaur cowering in the corner, yelling in its face...while the centaur, still trying to get at it, looks down to find sweet little Lucy holding her knife to his hamstring. Or something else...! *laughs* And he remembers that one of her names among his folk is "the Expedient" (or whatever, something bloody, something to the point, hah)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

One of these days I should go through all my fic and pick out how many times my Caspian is confused. It would probably be a lot.

Redhand, maybe? Queen Lucy Redhand? (That doesn't have the right ring, except for the bloodthirsty part.)

Hey, I haven't done a PC outsider POV yet! (Unless you count Caspian himself, but that's not what I'm talking about.) And you know how I love my outsider POVs.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Lucy=Incarnadine. Just the one word...not only does it mean "crimson-colored", but it means "to *make* crimson". She's castrated a centaur before, YOU MIGHT BE NEXT, PAL! *rotfl*


I wonder what Cornelius thinks of them? He's half-dwarf, so they're *his* sovreigns, too. Who was his father-a Telmarine? Not likely but possible...he might have been a good guy, they can't all be bigots or assholes...he might have been a foreigner, or who knows. *muses*

Anyway. Cornelius knows more about them as historical *people*, not just the mythical Kings and Queens, than probably anybody else in Narnia. I'm sure he didn't expect them to be so young, either.


Caspian is totally King Caspian the Perpetually Confused, But Very Pretty, of Narnia. *nods*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*hysterical laughter* Oh, she totally has, too. Only in self-defense, of course. (Body count for the five-POV story: 10. Caspian: 1. Edmund: 1. Susan: 0, but she wounded two and they would have died except for extenuating circumstances. Lucy: 1. Peter: 7.)

He doesn't specifically say he's Telmarine, but it's pretty heavily implied. And Cornelius would know a lot -- he has all the books. (Coming up: the story where Peter digs through all the historical records in Miraz's castle.) Not that there's a lot left over from the Golden Age, but there's some. (Including Tumnus' diary.)

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see how she could castrate a centaur "in self-defense". Wound or kill, yes, but castrate? Imagine *that* in the courtroom. *cracks up*


Damn it, I had a long-ass comment typed up and lj ate it. I'll have to do it over tomorrow. *glares*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I imagine it was followed by Peter and/or Edmund staring at the centaur and backing carefully away, shields held over...strategic places. *grin*