let's talk history and myth

[bedlamsbard]

One of the major themes of the Warsverse is the distance between history, myth, legend, and fact. The differences between Narnian and Telmarine legend, the distance between Narnian and Telmarine history, and what actually happened. I haven't talked about it much, but it's one of many things that made me seize on Prince Caspian like a drowning man on a rope.

I just finished reading A Voyage Long and Strange: Rediscovering the New World by Tony Horwitz, and there's a quote near the end that stuck near me.

[Talking about why Plymouth gets all the credit despite all the other colonies in America that predated it.]

"So you're saying we should honor myth rather than fact?" I asked.

"Precisely. [...] Myth is more important than history. History is arbitrary, a collection of facts. Myth we choose, we create, we perpetuate. [...] The story here may not be correct, but it transcends truth. It's like religion -- beyond facts. Myth trumps fact, always does, always has, always will."

[...]

Myths didn't just trump fact; they helped create it.

Something to think about in terms of Narnia. *thoughtful*

Comments

[franceica.livejournal.com]

I had a lesson about management and organization in my senior year, and there was one particular theory says that "facts are not important, how you interpret them, how you give them meaning, is more important and holds the true power to people". I think it is a rather similar thing that you are referring to here. *is fascinated*

And on a side note, I found a fencer's photo from a local newspaper yesterday and at the first glance I was like "OMG PETER!" You may want to check it out, it is here: My Paper (http://myepaper.mypaper.sg/ebook/web_php/fvbrowserjs.php?urljs=http://myepaper.mypaper.sg/ecreator/sphopf/ep140808cnd_opf_files/ep140808cnd.js&ver=Gen), at the Lifestyle section. Well, when I look at him now, his feature isn't that much like Peter's in the film. But still, I think it worth mentioning that my first glance make me exclaim "Peter". And well, he's a fencer! You did mention Peter joining fencing club and such (of course, I know he's thrown out for being too violent). And this guy's name is Peter, too. *laughs* I just find this quite amusing and thought maybe it's good to share with everyone.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Isn't it interesting? Facts are manipulable, just like anything else -- I suppose I did do a little with this, what with all the Telmarine propaganda about the High King being a brilliant but misguided warrior and all that -- but it wasn't something I was thinking about consciously.

Oh my God he does. *is highly bemused*

The past IS a foreign country. <3

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

There was that country that split off from former Yugoslavia, I forget which, and they had a flag ceremony in front of some grand white palace, and watching the ceremony one may think "oh, what a grand tradition", but in truth it was just choreographed recently by the national ballet company. [Insert that Orwell quote about controlling the present, past, and future.] History is not a straight line going upwards. History and tradition are largely choose-your-own-adventure, and one of the more effective ways of constructing and asserting cultural/national identity. And even when the customs really have been transmitted from past generations, this is not to say that they have never changed.

Re: The past IS a foreign country. <3

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*nods* And it's not one of those things people think about at all, but it's still there, it's still a major factor. And God, the things that are lost...but the things that are found, too, the stories that forge their way out of next to nothing but that can inspire great things. There was a S3 Farscape episode about that -- I don't remember the ep name, but the great heroes and villains weren't. (Uh, there was time travel involved, just to either clear things up or muddy the waters, if you're not familiar with Farscape.)

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

Yeah, people barely know what went on during their grandparents' generation. Hell, their own parents even. HELL, WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW EVEN. Times that by a thousand, and you have people debating whether Jesus really existed at all. It's really difficult seeing the past without the filter of the present, and that's why history always changes. Well, maybe not 'change' per se, but different parts of it are emphasized...? Anyway, A WEEK AGO HE THOUGHT NARNIANS WERE EXTINCT. High King Peter was a fairy tale and, as you have pointed out, fairy tales are creeeeeepy. OMG I would love to hear Telmarine folk/fairy tales about the High King and his family, WOULDN'T YOU???

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Some things are forgotten, some things are remembered, some things are made up out of whole cloth.

Telmarine propaganda! The High King was ONE OF US! Really! That's why he spent his entire life hunting down and killing Narnians (hey, a thousand years later, that's what the White Witch's folk are)! And then he was LURED INTO THE WOODS and BRUTALLY MURDERED! And the Prince of Shadows was always plotting against him! And there was no Lucy! At all!

Although I bet there are a couple of different classes of High King/Golden Age legends, and that there are several different versions of the High King and people are certain that the High King and the King of Summer and Peter the Magnificent were all different people.

*is fond of this sort of thing. OBVIOUSLY*

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

The High King is to the Telmarines sort of maybe like what Uther Pendragon is to Britain. There are totally scholars debating the details of the history, some who contend he and his family were totally made up and are just convenient anthropomorphizations of cultural values. And what cultural values precisely? And then there are the High King stories for children with convenient aesops at the end. Also: MUMMERS. And there are a thousand variations of everything due to wandering minstrels that adapt every story to each audience, bawdy doggerels about the High King and his ladies to drunken tavern-goers, romantic ballads of the true loooooove between the High King and his queen. Obscure and amateur Telmarine wizardry (those of them that do believe in such things) occasionally invoke the Prince of Shadows. And there MUST be a few scholars who are on Team Lucy!

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Boy, are THEY going to be surprised!

And then there are the historians who use the war diaries of some famous Telmarine general, where he calls Peter "the best warrior the world has ever seen," as proof that the High King cannot possibly be any of these people. He is a different person! Perhaps there never was a High King!

And so on and so forth. (And Miraz grew up loving the stories of High King Peter, but Caspian was never interested.)

[1aquaesulis76.livejournal.com]

*dances* See - this is why I love fandom, and I'm so pleased to find this kind of discussion and incredible attention to *how* the world of Narnia & environs *works* and interelates. The way history changes with time, and with who the victors of the moment are. The way myths are created, grow and become 'truth'. And yeah, I want the Pevensies to hear some of these stories!

Oh - and I know the Farscape ep you mean, with the hero who turned out to be the cook. I can't remember the title either - but it was a good ep for reality vs propaganda!

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

It's so shocking in the Narnia 'verse because thirteen hundred years have passed. Almost a millennium and a half. In our world, nobody knew about North and South America. The Crusades hadn't happened yet. The Roman Empire had just fallen. The Byzantine Empire and the Caliphates were around. The Holy Roman Empire hadn't been established yet. I mean, God, I'm shocked the Narnians remember anything, let alone that some of their myths are close to fact, at least to an extent. That's an enormous period of time.