I've always got time! I'm nosy, in case you haven't noticed. I'm going to dinner shortly (and nothing, not even fic, gets between me and my food...*coughs*), but post away so that when I get back, I can answer. *beams*
Well, one of my major stopping points here is why is Caspian in the Golden Age anyway? I'm using a plot device that's set up as having been used earlier, the Kadreddin mirror, which sent Edmund back in time to the Long Winter for a couple of very specific purposes: one, to give hope to the Narnians, two, to bring about the prophecy about the four thrones in Cair Paravel, and three, to lead to the White Witch killing off all the humans in Narnia. (Look, I didn't say they were all happy purposes.) And after that, he got back to his own time somehow. Now, the Kadreddin mirror was probably not made specifically to fuck with Peter's head (this is explained more or less in the story, and is not relevant here, I don't think) and is probably a religious/magical artifact consecrated to the Trickster, one of the Seven westron gods. And while it exists in both Peter's time and Caspian's time, it was most certainly not in Narnia during the Long Winter, so Edmund didn't use it to get back. I'm not sure how Edmund got back, but I'm betting pool of water, ice, other mirror, something mirror-like -- as soon as his "task" was completed, as soon as he'd fulfilled his purpose.
The question here is, "What's Caspian's purpose?" The most obvious answer might be, "to set up his love for the sea," but he doesn't appear in Cair Paravel, he appears on the Narnian-Belgarine border (in the northwest of Narnia), in the middle of a war, where it's Peter and Edmund that are present. I'd rather not have to set up something solely existing in my personal canon, and there's nothing I can think of anyway that would require an outsider's interference. (Remember, we're talking some deity laying on a heavy hand here. And no, it's not Aslan, despite the fact that Narnia is Aslan's "territory", but the Trickster has worshippers in Narnia (one of them being Peter, actually), and the Kadreddin mirror is his.) Another possibility would be to set up an entrance for the green serpent in SC, but we're still thirteen hundred years in the past; that seems like far too long a time. Ideally, it'd be something that's going to affect Narnia fairly soon, which -- if we're going via canon here -- leaves exactly two things: the White Stag, and the Dying Times. Only one of these is supported by canon. (Okay, I lie like a rug. The Dying Times? Not supported by canon, except sort of, because canon's timeline makes NO SENSE.)
And, yes, Belgarion is one of the countries that happily invades Narnia, but I don't think Caspian's about to do anything that makes that any more likely than it already is. (No, that would be the White Stag, and Easal of Belgarion being no one's fool.) So I don't think there's anything I can do to set up the Dying Times, and the White Stag incident doesn't need to get set up. And the Trickster's not going to send Caspian back to the Golden Age just to get enlightened; the Trickster doesn't give a damn about Caspian's personal feelings or the headache Peter's going to get as soon as he gets there, so anything relating to the bonding is out. It has to be something that's going to have greater significance down the line, and I'm drawing a blank on what it could possibly be, and I can't get Caspian back to his own time until I figure it out and he completes it.
Very good point, that neither Edmund's nor Caspian's time travelling have to be for only good purposes. Given that the device you're using is dedicated to a Chaos/Trickster god, it's more likely than not to be be for something bad.
Does the Trickster have any opinion regarding Narnia, herself? The earth bond is so important in your verse, I don't see how you can avoid it entirely. One thing I thought of in regards to Caspian's "love of the sea" was that he went voyaging to find the Lost Lords; in your fic, partly to flee Narnia, trying to avoid completing the bond. (He doesn't necessarily need to love the sea, just to find out how to build good, fast ships...perhaps he meets an interesting shipwright there and snatches a blueprint or two...*laughs*) If the Trickster prefers a weaker Narnia, he might very well want Caspian to witness the damage that it does to High King Peter and King Edmund, serving their sentient country.
Also, going on that voyage is how Caspian met the star's daughter and brought that blood-line into Narnia. We've talked about him doing that on purpose, to weaken Narnia's hold on subsequent kings via Rilian's mixed blood, and on down to the Last King, Tirian. Given your personal canon, the Trickster might be meddling and bringing about Narnia's downfall, for whatever reason.
Anything happen in the Dying Times, other than, well, a whole lot of killing? Who left the country, who came *into* the country who might not have, otherwise? What impact did the Dying Times have on other countries with whom Narnia had good relations and alliances? What wars were started, either with them, or between those other countries, that might not have, if Narnia's royals had been around? Is there any country that *didn't* invade Narnia that might have been expected to, and if so, why?
Will Caspian meet any Telmarines? Ambassadors or somebody, with whom he might have a conversation about the Telmarines taking over or something? Innocently, on his part, perhaps; but putting ideas in their minds that they might not have entertained, otherwise, since Narnia is too big an opponent for them to take right now? Planting seeds for future conquest, though....leading to the Dying Times.
Narnia doesn't have slavery, but in VotD, there was slavery in the Lone Islands. What got that started? It did end up affecting Caspian rather personally.
Just throwing some ideas out there, see if anything stirs an interest.
I think one of the major thematic elements is going to have to be the fall of Narnia. So -- and this is the sort of thing that has to be any Golden Age fic, but especially this one, because Caspian knows what's coming -- there has to be build-up to the glory of Narnia, which -- well, at this point, at least we see the glory of the army, but maybe we need a little more Peter and Edmund? Because already there's so much going on humanizing them; maybe what I have to do is go back and...not necessarily take out those elements, but concentrate more on the High King Peter and King Edmund, rather than just the brothers Pevensie? There has to be something to fall from.
And what Caspian knows is Peter and Edmund at the end of their reign, after the fall, so to speak, but -- this is actually a less-experienced Peter and Edmund than he knows. (Seven years in? Eight? Definitely not ten. If I dial back Caspian's age -- I originally had him at twenty-three in PC, but I might dial it back to twenty or twenty-one for "Be Like Water" -- because I want him and Peter to be on even ground here, at least age-wise, we can put Peter and Caspian both at about twenty-two, twenty-three, and Edmund at about twenty.) So how is that going to affect things? I was talking earlier about how this Peter is calmer than the Peter I write in PC, but -- no, I think that's still going to be true. But another thing I kind of want to deal with here is how Peter and Edmund are suffering from the amnesia incident, which is barely a year past. Can I bring that in without switching POVs? (Which I definitely don't want to do, because I really want outsider POV on this one.) So we have an already damaged Peter, and a strained Peter/Edmund relationship for a couple of reasons -- the absence, the upgraded responsibility and the sudden loss of it on Edmund's part, what's still a lot of strain for Narnia taking over Edmund immediately post-Peter returning, the fact that Peter doesn't remember everything (huh, parallels here to post-LWW?) -- and we've got Caspian looking in without understanding any of that. Great, now the sheer weight of Narnian history is the sheer weight of recent Narnian history.
Okay, fall. Fall of Narnia, fall of Peter and Edmund, fall of...Caspian? His faith in Peter? His faith in Narnia? Is this what is going to lead to him eventually fleeing, fleeing to sea?
If I'm going to do this, we're going to have to go to Cair Paravel, because I don't think I can do anything with that much weight just being Peter, Edmund, and the Belgarine War. It's going to have to be Narnia -- and that means Cair Paravel, the Shifting Market, the Navy, and Susan and Lucy. The Narnian Empire.
I think you *do* need to take them to Cair Paravel. The actual battle part of this fic should be relatively minor, an excuse for them to meet up, take him into custody, get business done, and hustle back to the castle to find out what the hell they've got on their hands. Who is this guy and why is he there?
I was just wondering about that Narnia vs Jadis fic idea you tossed out there...with them taking over Peter and Edmund and fighting it out. *muses*
I can see Edmund trailing this history around with him, always the first one to be suspected if anything goes wrong, and burning under the injustice of it. He *is*, after all, the sibling who turns out to be the most loyal to and supportive of the others, and the one that the people of Narnia named "the Just".(NOT Aslan, for fuck's sake-I hate how the movie changed who gave them their names!) His appearance in HHB shows he grew up very well, and I personally think he's the only Pevensie with a sense of humor. And, in your verse, he *is* Peter's bond-partner. If Peter didn't trust him, why allow him to do it?
So yeah, I can see Peter's disappearance causing all kinds of problems in the country, especially for Edmund on a personal level. He'd get a shitload of responsibility dumped on him, and Susan would need him, and people would probably try to kill him, and so on. Then Peter comes back and takes everything over again, just when Edmund was hitting his stride, maybe learning more about his own capablilities, and Peter takes it for granted that everything ran smoothly, etc, just like he takes it for granted that Edmund will always be there...as he realizes in the duel scene. Edmund *will*, but it's nice to have it said, y'know?
I think it would be very interesting to see what Narnia might have to say to Jadis, but especially about the young man the Witch calls a "traitor". *She* knows Edmund rather well, by now, via Peter.
Regarding Caspian's loss of faith...I don't think he has faith in Peter or Narnia, really. He has faith in the Telmarine throne. *shrugs* Book!Caspian thought Old Narnia was a jolly time of playing with talking critters and the high king had it easy because he had "load of brothers and sisters" to help him and btw, he should be king because his dad was, y'know. Very hearty back-slapping type. Movie!Caspian actually is a bit more complex, motivational-wise, because he brings some anger and a tad of jealousy to the table. But again, it's expressly about getting the throne for himself, over his own people, and finding some accomodation with the Narnians that will let them stop killing each other, NOT about being one happy country together.
What are Caspian's issues, that might make him flee, make him not want to have a similar Golden Age Narnia for his own? We're taking it for granted that he would, because hey, Narnia is cool; but what if the very mixed, interactive nature of the empire was blashpemous to his worldview as a Telmarine? We've got sexual issues (with the Pevensies having various preferences, there's plenty to choose from); religious issues (Lucy, in particular, could talk to him on this one-he'd be all what the hell IS Aslan, anyways?!!); moral issues (you people kill at the drop of a hat! That little girl just castrated a centaur! *snorts*); nonhumans as citizens *stares*; trading with countries they don't like, or that the Telmarines later don't have anything to do with; the freakin' land *talking* to you...!
I still think the "wedding" should be an annual event, as most fertility rituals are...imagine how freaked out he'd be if he got to witness *that*. *grins*
Oh, I know it's too much to hope for. But damn.
Hmmm. What do you think Susan and Lucy will bring to the table, issue or conflict-wise, if they come to the Cair, either as sisters, queens and equal rulers, or women vs how the Telmarines do things?
The battle isn't a major part of the story at all. I think I'm going to have to spread out Caspian's time in the war over several weeks -- right now it's all compressed into one day, and that's definitely not going to work -- but the major battle, the one where they more or less end the war, isn't a major part of the story. And Caspian doesn't see any of it. He asks, and Peter tells him flat out he's got no reason to trust him in battle.
The war -- the Narnian camp -- for Caspian's time with the Narnian people, the ordinary citizens, and the army, and Cair Paravel for the royals, the politics, and the empire. And there are plain Narnian subplots running through the story too -- the war, the attack at Cair Paravel, the thin lines all four of the Pevensies are walking. Narnia's not going to stop and suddenly start revolving around Caspian, so he gets swept up in what an ordinary few months in Cair Paravel are like. Peter wasn't lying when he said the Golden Age was a tough, brutal time: Caspian's about to see that in person.
Peter's disappeance -- for Narnia, a year missing. A thousand things Susan and Edmund and Lucy didn't realize he did, and that they now have to do in turn. Their allies suddenly dubious, and their enemies suddenly waiting on Narnia's borders, gathering their forces to strike. For Peter, a year being ordinary, nothing more than a mercenary and a swordsman. Nothing more than himself, what little that may be.
I don't think Peter was full-bonded to Narnia for very long before he went missing, and I wonder if Narnia didn't change things when he came back -- strengthened the bond, took away Peter's doubts, because there had to be some on his part. And when he came back -- well, he was Narnia's completely and without a doubt, because the first thing he remembers is Narnia and the first thing he knows is Narnia, but that night it's Narnia and Edmund both who come to him, and that screws things up even further between Peter and Edmund. And I don't know how much Peter remembers, or doesn't remember -- and he'll remember everything eventually, but not immediately and not now -- but that's affecting how he's acting a year later. I don't think Edmund knows for sure, but I think he suspects, and that's coloring he and Peter are relating to each other. And Peter's -- gentler towards him, than he used to be. The tension is gone on Peter's part, but it's doubled on Edmund's.
Remember "The White City"? That takes place immediately before this. Or, actually, right in the middle of this, actually; Peter and Edmund coming back is Peter and Edmund coming back from this Belgarine war.
And so Caspian ends up in the middle of someone's assassination plot, or someone's -- eventually I'm going to figure out why there are armed men storming into Cair Paravel in the middle of a Big Political Event/Party/Ball. Narnian politics are messy. Telmarine Narnia doesn't really exist outside of Narnia; I think we can make a pretty good assumption that they have little, if any, interaction with the countries outside Narnia. Caspian is going to have next to no experience with foreign politics. Maybe he doesn't want Peter's empire, or to rebuild it. Maybe he realizes he can't rebuild it.
All empires must fall...and some things are certain.
sorry, but if this takes place during "The White City" shouldn't it be nine years after they come to narnia? because it says eight years ago they defeated Masongnong and that was about a year into thier reign. is that even right? my math could be totally off, and it is your world. i'm sorry if this comes across as rude, i'm really, really not trying to be.
My dates are off all over the place, because I keep changing when things happen. *sigh* One of these days, I swear to God I will set up a timeline and actually stick to it. (Actually, anywhere I use numbers is likely to be off, at this point; in two different stories I put Peter's time trapped in the caves of Angrisla at seventeen hours and seventy-two hours. At some point I will go through and change things so that they line up.)
And no, it's not rude at all; I'd forgotten I'd actually put down a set number of years in "The White City."
Regarding taking in refugees from Telmar, as we discussed in brief previously...*would* they, now, knowing it's Telmarines who later take over the country? How much does Caspian tell them about the future?
He's got to know that if they could, they'd prevent Telmar from conquering Narnia, and thus *he'd* never be king...Is *that* what he's supposed to do, keep them from banning immigrants from Telmar, or from banning trade/contact with the country? Because that little contact that the Telmarine ruling class has with the rich country of Narnia, from their trade and from their spies' reports (smuggled in among the immigrants, as you said) gives them a taste for conquest that only the strong Narnian monarchy prevents them from acting on.
The Telmarines may not have caused the Dying Times, but they sure as hell profited by them. Maybe even kept going, whenever it looked like things were settling, then...moved in nd picked off a weak prey.
Caspian tells them nothing. He tries, but neither Peter nor Edmund nor anyone else will let him speak of it.
And I talked a little more about the Telmarines in Narnia down below.
And there's no way for Caspian to know that he's supposed to do something. But from what little he sees of the Telmarines -- and Narnia's at undeclared war with the Telmarines right now, which people are more than happy to tell Caspian, and Caspian looks Telmarine, he has a Telmarine name, and he fights like a Telmarine, but Narnia has Telmarines of its own, now -- he can't possibly figure out how Telmar can take Narnia. Hmm.
Peter's squire is the son of a Telmarine refugee. A Telmarine lord, an important one -- and one that's likely related to another Caspian (http://bedlamsbard.livejournal.com/268545.html?thread=1575681#t1575681). That kid's going to recognize Caspian's name -- Edmund recognizes Caspian's name. And if I do take Caspian back to Cair Paravel -- and it's looking more and more likely that I'll have to -- then he'll definitely meet Lord Absalian, who'll also recognize Caspian's name. And there're going to be rumors -- Peter and Edmund weren't the only ones who heard Caspian say he was king of Narnia.
Huh. Must ponder.
The Dying Times. Someone who didn't invade Narnia during the Dying Times was Telmar, and I've been setting up why. (Some of that in this story, actually.) Telmar has huge political problems, and actually, they kind of parallel modern Telmarine Narnia's. When the Pevensies came into power in Narnia, the king of Telmar was Obregon, who was relatively friendly with Narnia. He had two sons, Beturian and Pelagian, and one brother, Marroquin. Pelagian, the younger son, at one point got himself engaged to Lucy. He also got himself killed by Lucy on their wedding day, courtesy of his trying to kill Peter. So two heirs to Obregon, then, Pelagian and Marroquin. Telmar also had religious troubles. There were a fair number of Aslan followers in Telmar, but the overwhelming majority of Telmarines, including the royal family, were followers of the Burned God and the thousand little gods. Obregon didn't particularly care, but Marroquin did, and he gallivanted all over Telmar persecuted Aslan followers, a large number of whom fled over the borders, especially into Narnia. Narnia's first refugees were from Telmar, lucy them. The Obregon died of an illness -- although almost everyone is pretty sure he was poisoned by Marroquin. Pelagian vanished from Telmar, and Marroquin took over. And promptly started terrorizing anyone he didn't agree with. More people fled Telmar, including the above Lord Absalian and his family. By the time "Old Timber" happens, Telmar's baiting Narnia's borders. Not regulars -- Telmar claims they're bandits -- but they're almost certainly regulars without banners. There are enough internal issues in Telmar -- including the Shoushan Empire perching on the border waiting to pounce at the slightest opportunity, and remember Shoushan, Shoushan is important (hell, remember of the westron countries, Shoushan is the only one that Caspian knows about a thousand years later in "Once More for the Ages") -- that by the time the Dying Times happen, Telmar is more than happy to sit back and let Natare, Belgarion, and Lasci rip Narnia apart.
The Shoushan Empire also didn't invade Narnia. Lasci, which Peter had conquered only a few years earlier (and I have to change this in "Old Timber", because I have the Lasci fiasco happening before "Old Timber" and it happens a few years later), secedes from Narnia, but Belgarion and Natare both pounce on it and argue over it for a bit. Natare and Belgarion are both bitter towards Narnia, and Narnia's a fertile land, a rich land, plenty of trade connections. It was Natare and Belgarion who wrought the most destruction on Narnia, but the giants came in from the north, the islands seceded, Calormene and Masongnongese and just plain pirate pirates attacked the coastline, Archenland carved out a huge piece of land -- and while Natare and Belgarion were ripping Narnia to shreds, Shoushan swept in and conquered both their lands. A century or so later Shoushan took Telmar too, and there were internal problems that led to some of the Telmarines fleeing into Narnia. The Dying Times actually ended when the Telmarines came into Narnia; they didn't start their slaughtering streak (Caspian the Conqueror wasn't the Telmarine who led the Telmarines into Narnia; he was the Telmarine who rose against the native Narnians and called himself King) for another century or so.
(Natare and Belgarion burned the forests down to the ground. When Caspian comes back to the Golden Age, he's never seen trees so tall or so thick.)
Right. I'm not saying the Telmarines *caused* the Dying Times. Just that they sure profited in the long run from them, because it weakened the country to the point where they could easily take it over. A century of rule isn't that long, you know...it's about what, 3 human generations? And it would probaby be less, for some of the Narnians...there'd be people alive who'd remember the D.T., maybe even remember the Kings and Queens, when the Telmarines took over nd then when they started their killing.
I just can't help but wonder if the Telmarine government found out they'd evetually end up ruling Narnia, what long-range plans would they start laying? If Peter & co found it out, what would *they* do, to try and stop it-and what would Caspian do, to make sure it happened anyways, because *he* wants to be king?
I think that's your hook.
*stares in complete fucking CONFUSION at your plot, btw*
Oh, yeah, definitely. And the saddest betrayal is that the Narnians had just started to trust the Telmarines when Caspian the Conqueror got Ideas. They wouldn't make the mistake of trusting humans again, not for a thousand years. Actually, it's a damned miracle they trust our Caspian. (Prophecy. There has to be some kind of prophecy.)
Funny thing is that Caspian isn't descended from royalty. "And the first king was a lucky soldier..."
Irian recognizes Caspian's name. Maybe he was in the tent, or just outside when Peter and Edmund were interrogating Caspian, and Absalian will recognize Caspian's name. And he'll pass it on to his relations in Telmar, one of whom is Lieutenant Caspian of the Telmarine army. Although I kind of doubt they really need a reason to start conquering.
And they can't know. Peter and Edmund, I mean. Because they're shocked in PC, and whatever it is Caspian does, it can't be big then, because the mirror fucks with memory too. Caspian will remember -- the others won't.
That's what I figure, that none of the Pevensies can find out everything about Caspian or they'd stop it from happening.
It's like the butterfly effect, something small being done or not done that accumulates over time into this big omigod THING.
Hmm...I wonder how long *centaurs* live? Perhaps the one big guy, what's his name in the movie, the prophecy-spouting one...maybe either him or his dad or mom was young when Caspian travelled back & they *saw* him there? So they might know that Caspian *is* going to be the new king...and then they zap him with the earth bond asap, to make sure he's got limits on him, with Peter and Edmund's co-operation. They don't necessarily *trust* him, so much as they know they can use him to get rid of Miraz and/or less reasonable Telmarine rule. Because Caspian is better than the alternative, book or movie canon. He's not a *bad* guy, just...not Narnian, not flexible enough to be what the country really needs for health and wealth, but still...he's trying to do some good stuff, even through his worldview of "I'm the King, so I can do what I want!"...
Man, I can't wait to see Edmund do the "you're not MY king. MY king is the High King Peter!" line and put him in his place. *grins*...I hope they include that. Hm, they should, given that they at least let Edmund be sassy, even when they're under-using him to a criminal degree. *frowns*
I doubt centaurs have a much longer of a lifespan than humans. Certainly not a thousand years, or even a few hundred. Thirteen hundred years is just too long to set up anything in Caspian's time directly. *scowls*
God, yes, I hope they include that, because we need Edmund snapping at Caspian. And Caspian needs to be reminded he's king only by the grace of Peter.
Peter was inducted into the bond by them, right? And there's no reason why the dryads couldn't live for centuries or more, given that they're *trees*. Nothing in canon has ever limited *their* lifespan, nor anything in the movies, other than being killed by weapons.
So any reason to trust Caspian could be because *they* know things and hustle him into the bond, etc.
Well, I did burn down almost all the forests in Narnia.
I don't think we really need to give Peter and Co. an outside reason to trust Caspian; it works well enough without an outside impetus. I don't want to lose any human connection.
Who said I was gaining an education OR maintaining a modicum of sanity? *grin*
That explains why I write stuff like this down the sides of my notes in class...
There was no high king in Narnia. Cair Paravel sat silent in waiting, and no voice of silver- tongued Edmund, gold-throated Susan, bell-laughed Lucy, could wake her. The rains came. Narnia wept for her lost king and his absence was a great stroke to the heart of Narnia. In this dark time came the Natarenes, westron reavers who sought green- hilled Narnia for their own.
Out of the wild west came the Natarenes, and Narnia rose against them, led by silver-tongued Edmund, Peter's brother, king of Narnia, and beautiful Queen Susan, called Widowmaker, Heartsbane, and Lucy Strongheart, Queen of Morning. Without their High King, Narnia went to war.
I cannot write poetry. *cough* Well. I do not like writing poetry. I blame this on Beowulf.
*snickers* The Lay of the High King is believed to have been written after the Pevensies left Narnia...
Now, the Natarenes gathered many men about them, blood-bonded countrymen and bought sellswords both. One such was the bold Red Company, an old killers troop, strong with fell men and women, who answered hard-hearted Piero's call. So old and so honored was the Red Company that Piero himself went to their captain, nine-fingered Mathin, to demand the company's greatest swordsman for the Eschmarnat. Clever Mathin, beloved of the Seven, gave him Breakneck, a young blade new come to the company, entered without name or memory, but with such a skill with a sword that he defeated ten strong warriors, old and fell and honored among the company.
[...]
It seemed that raven-browed Edmund was retreating, stepping back over the border into Narnia. Breakneck followed, but as he set foot on blood- bonded Narnia's soil, he fell senseless upon the earth. The Natarenes surged forward, but a voice stopped them. "Step onto Narnian ground and your lives will be forfeit," spoke clear-eyed Susan, her great bow drawn in her hand. Thus threatened, the Natarenes stopped, staring with wolves' eyes as raven- browed Edmund knelt down and drew off Breakneck's helm. It was cold- eyed Breakneck beneath, but his face was familiar to Edmund as his own sword. "Do you know me, brother?" he said, and it was gold-crowned Peter who looked up at him, shocked and shaken. "I know you," he said, voice and mind clear of witchery at last. He rose to his feet, gripping lion-headed Rhindon in his hand, and a great roar rose up from the watching Narnians. "Your High King has returned!" cried Edmund Silvertongue, and the Natarenes broke and wept in fear, for they had not the courage to face Peter Bittersteel on the open field.
See, I can write poetry, but only freeverse. I have no sense of rhythm and fail abysmally as soon as I try to write anything even resembling conventional metrical structure. I was able to write some pieces with my Wife once- she is very good with scansion. Can't enlist her in the endeavours of Fanfic, though, sadly, as she is morally opposed on every possible count.
Um. That is a very good piece of epic poetry. It made me shiver.
I would like to be able to write poetry; the only reason I manage to do this stuff is because I can sort of do the phrasing and I don't write it in any kind of structure; I put beats in when I'm typing it up.
Most of the poetry has gone up somewhere; there's just the last bit, the introductory bit.
Listen, o man, and hear of the glory of gold-crowned Peter. Fire-eater, Bittersteel, Summer's King, wise in council, strong in battle, named High King over all kings of green-hilled and blue-watered Narnia.
[...]
Far-eyed Edmund, justly named Eagle of Narnia fleet-footed, silver-tongued, Evening's King, the Whisperer.
No one knows that the Kadreddin mirror is connected to the Trickster in any way, if that makes any difference. None of this is actually going to be stated in the text, but I need it, for background and so the internal plot-arc makes sense. Because narrowed down to its component parts, it's the story where Caspian ends up in the Golden Age (and in the background, Narnia defeating Belgarion, post-amnesia Peter -- and there are still things he doesn't remember -- and some kind of interesting Peter/Edmund stuff, but none of that's important to Caspian's story, just to the over-all Warsverse plot-arc), and it's the story about, I think, the beautiful doomed glory of the Golden Age, and how the past is a foreign country, and wanting what you can't have (I can probably, though I haven't yet, tie Peter/Caspian in here, and on a note that Caspian won't notice, Peter/Edmund, Peter/Narnia, and Caspian/Narnia), and the inevitability of fate/destiny/time, and "what does it matter, how a man falls?" "when the fall is all that's left, it matters." (Who's falling? Peter, Narnia.)
Huh. Tragedy and inevitability. God, this is going to be a much more complicated story than I thought. (As you can see, I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.)
Is there only *one* Kadredding mirror? Or is the magic more in the ritual words said than the mirror itself, since you said Edmund gets home via any reflective surface...hmm.
Well, there are no ritual words said. I haven't really thought through the mechanics of it, but it acts -- more or less independently, I think? And it's the Kadreddin mirror because it got sent to Peter from the royal family of Resi, the Kadreddins. (Ex-fiancee number three. Oh, yes, so many of Narnia's problems come from Peter's jilted fiancees.)
It's sort of a white elephant kind of gift, isn't it? Not something he can just send *back* with a thanks-but-no thanks note.
So. It's in Cair Paravel, right? How did Caspian come by *his*? Did somebody steal it from the Cair and take it to Telmar, for it to become one of *their* royal treasures or something?
Your damned complicated plot and timeline make me dizzy!!! *laughs*
“We – my men and I and my old professor – were investigating a great ruin found on the western border of Narnia, in the western wild,” he says. “It seemed to have once been a castle of great stature. Not here, but farther south. Some of the structure was still intact, including a treasury beneath the earth. Some of the surviving records from the Dying Times say that certain treasures of Narnia were removed from Cair Paravel and taken to a fortress called Arn Abedin in the west, and we were seeking them. There was a collection of artifacts in the treasury – some gold, some silver and gems, but mostly things that seemed to have no earthly purpose to have been preserved. One was a mirror –”
“A mirror?” Peter interrupts.
Edmund groans. “About so big?” he asks, shaping it with his hands. “Glossy black surface, usually reflected back a background that wasn’t necessarily there? Witchwood frame carved with vines and about a million eyes all staring out at you? Little etching on the back that says, ‘To Peter Bittersteel, go to hell, Love and Kisses, Drystan Kadreddin,’ in Old Resan?”
“It does not say that,” Peter hisses at him. “Exactly.”
“How did you –” Caspian begins, because that’s exactly it. Although he didn’t have a chance to turn the mirror around and look at the back.
“I hate that thing,” Edmund says flatly. “I told you we should have destroyed it, Pete. I told you we shouldn’t accept gifts from the angry families of your jilted fiancées.”
“I think you were the one who told me that not accepting them was unwise politically,” Peter says, voice dry. “And we had a griffin drop it from five hundred feet up and it didn’t so much as dent. We even tried dragon fire on it and all it did was char a little around the edges.
“You know what’s even more unwise politically?” Edmund demands. “Vanishing for four months.”
(I'm working through your other comment, slowly. I'm kind of, uh, thinking out loud. All over the screen.)
i'm loving the circularity of history that edmund being sent back to narnia brings, the past being put in motion by the future, that's some cool mindfuckery. it reminds me of that near the end of the dance in "back to the future" where marty's mom's like, "marty -- what a nice a name," so marty is pretty much named after himself. WOOOAAAAH HISTORY. so not a straight line! more like a gordian knot. how excited am i for my Historical Sociology class on monday? SO EXCITED. too bad i probably will have to drop it.
maybe edmund bargained his escape from jadis? or maybe he made her a promise (of stilted foreshadowing!) where he's like, "i will return to you. not as i am now, but i promise you i will return." and one hundred years later jadis sees a little boy in the woods, a son of adam, and bids her sleigh stop. (the last empress of charn has a long memory; she does not forget.) the boy tells her his name is edmund. of course it is. she smiles. he has returned to her.
i love how narnia fic is like one big "TAKE THAT" to historiography.
IMHO if caspian is a vehicle for a eulogy for narnia, then make him have reason to travel around narnia. make his eyes our eyes, his wonder our wonder, etc. what can he see for us, stuck in this border war? what does that achieve?
i like the idea of caspian going back to wish upon a white stag though, with some cool and crazy wish, possibly one that screws with history some more. inevitable is relative!
Oooh. Now we're getting past the story and into the fourth wall -- this is fun, watch me mess up literary terms all over the place, awesome -- because now we're putting Caspian into the shoes of the audience. They're seeing Narnia as it was, Caspian is seeing Narnia as it was. And...you just said that. *head.wall*
What does he see? The army of Narnia, in all her glory. An empire has to have something to fall from as it crumbles down. This is what they fought for, this is what they died for. And a thousand years later, it's meaningless. No one remembers.
Oooh. Oh, that's it. That's something. The meaninglessness of what is now compared to what is remembered.
You know, I can imagine him taking that Braniac 13 technology he used to give Metropolis an overhaul and trying to do the same to Narnia once his curiosity was satisfied and he had a good idea of what he had his hands on. That could be interesting.
Okay, so I'm commenting here because I have know idea where to ask you this but, in PC do the Pevensies remember GoldenAge!Caspain? I mean it probubly wouldn't be easy to forget the Telmarine who once claimed to be the King of Narnia from the future. And if they do remember, what kind of new dinamics does that mean for all of them in PC?
Also, if you are wondering who this random chick is who is stalking your posts, I read your first narnia fic and I loved it so much that I read all of your fics as they came and totally accepted your personal canon as my own, but I've never had a live journal account so I couldn't comment or anything. So its not like I just randomly popped up and started stalking, I've sort of been following the awsomeness of your Narnia for a while now. Just saying that makes me feel like such a creep. So, now I have an acount so that is why I'm commenting all of a sudden. Anyway, I just think you are such a talented writer and your actually my favorite in the whole Narnia fandom, and I hoped your not like, too creeped out, or whatever.
I notice you didn't include the part about Narnia pouncing on the newly-recovered Peter, via poor Edmund...wonder what the Telmarines would have thought of *that*! "Very close family, indeed." *rotfl*
I still don't like the *style*, because ye olde lay poetry doesn't do much for me. But you do it well. *pats you*
Hey, who knows what's lost, both in time and in translation? (This is probably a Telmarine translation of an old Narnian poem; I don't think the Lay was written during the Golden Age.)
It sounds old, but not "Narnian"; so a translation, yes-and I doubt it would have been written at the time...perhaps later, as people tried to save their memories and history from dying off. I doubt the Telmarines would have easy access to the peoples who'd have the more private inforation on the Kings and Queens, you know? Just surface folk tales and legends, so that would be part of the reason for inaccuracy.
A lot of the southern Narnians, those who didn't stand and fight, fled north. Giant country -- but safer than the south, which suffered the brunt of the invasion. Giants were terrifying enough, and the land was harsh enough, that the Belgarines and Natarenes weren't too keen on going up there, and by the time the Telmarines came in, some of those Narnians had started moving south again.
Er. That was a long-winded way of saying that's where the poem may have come from. That or it's a remnant from some of the human Narnians -- I'd bet on the Ansketts expats, personally, just because of the style and because they're survivors.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 12:26 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 12:30 am (UTC)(Hey, do you have a minute for me to babble at you about "Old Timber"?)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 12:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 01:38 am (UTC)Well, one of my major stopping points here is why is Caspian in the Golden Age anyway? I'm using a plot device that's set up as having been used earlier, the Kadreddin mirror, which sent Edmund back in time to the Long Winter for a couple of very specific purposes: one, to give hope to the Narnians, two, to bring about the prophecy about the four thrones in Cair Paravel, and three, to lead to the White Witch killing off all the humans in Narnia. (Look, I didn't say they were all happy purposes.) And after that, he got back to his own time somehow. Now, the Kadreddin mirror was probably not made specifically to fuck with Peter's head (this is explained more or less in the story, and is not relevant here, I don't think) and is probably a religious/magical artifact consecrated to the Trickster, one of the Seven westron gods. And while it exists in both Peter's time and Caspian's time, it was most certainly not in Narnia during the Long Winter, so Edmund didn't use it to get back. I'm not sure how Edmund got back, but I'm betting pool of water, ice, other mirror, something mirror-like -- as soon as his "task" was completed, as soon as he'd fulfilled his purpose.
The question here is, "What's Caspian's purpose?" The most obvious answer might be, "to set up his love for the sea," but he doesn't appear in Cair Paravel, he appears on the Narnian-Belgarine border (in the northwest of Narnia), in the middle of a war, where it's Peter and Edmund that are present. I'd rather not have to set up something solely existing in my personal canon, and there's nothing I can think of anyway that would require an outsider's interference. (Remember, we're talking some deity laying on a heavy hand here. And no, it's not Aslan, despite the fact that Narnia is Aslan's "territory", but the Trickster has worshippers in Narnia (one of them being Peter, actually), and the Kadreddin mirror is his.) Another possibility would be to set up an entrance for the green serpent in SC, but we're still thirteen hundred years in the past; that seems like far too long a time. Ideally, it'd be something that's going to affect Narnia fairly soon, which -- if we're going via canon here -- leaves exactly two things: the White Stag, and the Dying Times. Only one of these is supported by canon. (Okay, I lie like a rug. The Dying Times? Not supported by canon, except sort of, because canon's timeline makes NO SENSE.)
And, yes, Belgarion is one of the countries that happily invades Narnia, but I don't think Caspian's about to do anything that makes that any more likely than it already is. (No, that would be the White Stag, and Easal of Belgarion being no one's fool.) So I don't think there's anything I can do to set up the Dying Times, and the White Stag incident doesn't need to get set up. And the Trickster's not going to send Caspian back to the Golden Age just to get enlightened; the Trickster doesn't give a damn about Caspian's personal feelings or the headache Peter's going to get as soon as he gets there, so anything relating to the bonding is out. It has to be something that's going to have greater significance down the line, and I'm drawing a blank on what it could possibly be, and I can't get Caspian back to his own time until I figure it out and he completes it.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:18 am (UTC)Does the Trickster have any opinion regarding Narnia, herself? The earth bond is so important in your verse, I don't see how you can avoid it entirely. One thing I thought of in regards to Caspian's "love of the sea" was that he went voyaging to find the Lost Lords; in your fic, partly to flee Narnia, trying to avoid completing the bond. (He doesn't necessarily need to love the sea, just to find out how to build good, fast ships...perhaps he meets an interesting shipwright there and snatches a blueprint or two...*laughs*) If the Trickster prefers a weaker Narnia, he might very well want Caspian to witness the damage that it does to High King Peter and King Edmund, serving their sentient country.
Also, going on that voyage is how Caspian met the star's daughter and brought that blood-line into Narnia. We've talked about him doing that on purpose, to weaken Narnia's hold on subsequent kings via Rilian's mixed blood, and on down to the Last King, Tirian. Given your personal canon, the Trickster might be meddling and bringing about Narnia's downfall, for whatever reason.
Anything happen in the Dying Times, other than, well, a whole lot of killing? Who left the country, who came *into* the country who might not have, otherwise? What impact did the Dying Times have on other countries with whom Narnia had good relations and alliances? What wars were started, either with them, or between those other countries, that might not have, if Narnia's royals had been around? Is there any country that *didn't* invade Narnia that might have been expected to, and if so, why?
Will Caspian meet any Telmarines? Ambassadors or somebody, with whom he might have a conversation about the Telmarines taking over or something? Innocently, on his part, perhaps; but putting ideas in their minds that they might not have entertained, otherwise, since Narnia is too big an opponent for them to take right now? Planting seeds for future conquest, though....leading to the Dying Times.
Narnia doesn't have slavery, but in VotD, there was slavery in the Lone Islands. What got that started? It did end up affecting Caspian rather personally.
Just throwing some ideas out there, see if anything stirs an interest.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:50 am (UTC)I think one of the major thematic elements is going to have to be the fall of Narnia. So -- and this is the sort of thing that has to be any Golden Age fic, but especially this one, because Caspian knows what's coming -- there has to be build-up to the glory of Narnia, which -- well, at this point, at least we see the glory of the army, but maybe we need a little more Peter and Edmund? Because already there's so much going on humanizing them; maybe what I have to do is go back and...not necessarily take out those elements, but concentrate more on the High King Peter and King Edmund, rather than just the brothers Pevensie? There has to be something to fall from.
And what Caspian knows is Peter and Edmund at the end of their reign, after the fall, so to speak, but -- this is actually a less-experienced Peter and Edmund than he knows. (Seven years in? Eight? Definitely not ten. If I dial back Caspian's age -- I originally had him at twenty-three in PC, but I might dial it back to twenty or twenty-one for "Be Like Water" -- because I want him and Peter to be on even ground here, at least age-wise, we can put Peter and Caspian both at about twenty-two, twenty-three, and Edmund at about twenty.) So how is that going to affect things? I was talking earlier about how this Peter is calmer than the Peter I write in PC, but -- no, I think that's still going to be true. But another thing I kind of want to deal with here is how Peter and Edmund are suffering from the amnesia incident, which is barely a year past. Can I bring that in without switching POVs? (Which I definitely don't want to do, because I really want outsider POV on this one.) So we have an already damaged Peter, and a strained Peter/Edmund relationship for a couple of reasons -- the absence, the upgraded responsibility and the sudden loss of it on Edmund's part, what's still a lot of strain for Narnia taking over Edmund immediately post-Peter returning, the fact that Peter doesn't remember everything (huh, parallels here to post-LWW?) -- and we've got Caspian looking in without understanding any of that. Great, now the sheer weight of Narnian history is the sheer weight of recent Narnian history.
Okay, fall. Fall of Narnia, fall of Peter and Edmund, fall of...Caspian? His faith in Peter? His faith in Narnia? Is this what is going to lead to him eventually fleeing, fleeing to sea?
If I'm going to do this, we're going to have to go to Cair Paravel, because I don't think I can do anything with that much weight just being Peter, Edmund, and the Belgarine War. It's going to have to be Narnia -- and that means Cair Paravel, the Shifting Market, the Navy, and Susan and Lucy. The Narnian Empire.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 03:41 am (UTC)I was just wondering about that Narnia vs Jadis fic idea you tossed out there...with them taking over Peter and Edmund and fighting it out. *muses*
I can see Edmund trailing this history around with him, always the first one to be suspected if anything goes wrong, and burning under the injustice of it. He *is*, after all, the sibling who turns out to be the most loyal to and supportive of the others, and the one that the people of Narnia named "the Just".(NOT Aslan, for fuck's sake-I hate how the movie changed who gave them their names!) His appearance in HHB shows he grew up very well, and I personally think he's the only Pevensie with a sense of humor. And, in your verse, he *is* Peter's bond-partner. If Peter didn't trust him, why allow him to do it?
So yeah, I can see Peter's disappearance causing all kinds of problems in the country, especially for Edmund on a personal level. He'd get a shitload of responsibility dumped on him, and Susan would need him, and people would probably try to kill him, and so on. Then Peter comes back and takes everything over again, just when Edmund was hitting his stride, maybe learning more about his own capablilities, and Peter takes it for granted that everything ran smoothly, etc, just like he takes it for granted that Edmund will always be there...as he realizes in the duel scene. Edmund *will*, but it's nice to have it said, y'know?
I think it would be very interesting to see what Narnia might have to say to Jadis, but especially about the young man the Witch calls a "traitor". *She* knows Edmund rather well, by now, via Peter.
Regarding Caspian's loss of faith...I don't think he has faith in Peter or Narnia, really. He has faith in the Telmarine throne. *shrugs* Book!Caspian thought Old Narnia was a jolly time of playing with talking critters and the high king had it easy because he had "load of brothers and sisters" to help him and btw, he should be king because his dad was, y'know. Very hearty back-slapping type. Movie!Caspian actually is a bit more complex, motivational-wise, because he brings some anger and a tad of jealousy to the table. But again, it's expressly about getting the throne for himself, over his own people, and finding some accomodation with the Narnians that will let them stop killing each other, NOT about being one happy country together.
What are Caspian's issues, that might make him flee, make him not want to have a similar Golden Age Narnia for his own? We're taking it for granted that he would, because hey, Narnia is cool; but what if the very mixed, interactive nature of the empire was blashpemous to his worldview as a Telmarine? We've got sexual issues (with the Pevensies having various preferences, there's plenty to choose from); religious issues (Lucy, in particular, could talk to him on this one-he'd be all what the hell IS Aslan, anyways?!!); moral issues (you people kill at the drop of a hat! That little girl just castrated a centaur! *snorts*); nonhumans as citizens *stares*; trading with countries they don't like, or that the Telmarines later don't have anything to do with; the freakin' land *talking* to you...!
I still think the "wedding" should be an annual event, as most fertility rituals are...imagine how freaked out he'd be if he got to witness *that*. *grins*
Oh, I know it's too much to hope for. But damn.
Hmmm. What do you think Susan and Lucy will bring to the table, issue or conflict-wise, if they come to the Cair, either as sisters, queens and equal rulers, or women vs how the Telmarines do things?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 05:54 am (UTC)The war -- the Narnian camp -- for Caspian's time with the Narnian people, the ordinary citizens, and the army, and Cair Paravel for the royals, the politics, and the empire. And there are plain Narnian subplots running through the story too -- the war, the attack at Cair Paravel, the thin lines all four of the Pevensies are walking. Narnia's not going to stop and suddenly start revolving around Caspian, so he gets swept up in what an ordinary few months in Cair Paravel are like. Peter wasn't lying when he said the Golden Age was a tough, brutal time: Caspian's about to see that in person.
Peter's disappeance -- for Narnia, a year missing. A thousand things Susan and Edmund and Lucy didn't realize he did, and that they now have to do in turn. Their allies suddenly dubious, and their enemies suddenly waiting on Narnia's borders, gathering their forces to strike. For Peter, a year being ordinary, nothing more than a mercenary and a swordsman. Nothing more than himself, what little that may be.
I don't think Peter was full-bonded to Narnia for very long before he went missing, and I wonder if Narnia didn't change things when he came back -- strengthened the bond, took away Peter's doubts, because there had to be some on his part. And when he came back -- well, he was Narnia's completely and without a doubt, because the first thing he remembers is Narnia and the first thing he knows is Narnia, but that night it's Narnia and Edmund both who come to him, and that screws things up even further between Peter and Edmund. And I don't know how much Peter remembers, or doesn't remember -- and he'll remember everything eventually, but not immediately and not now -- but that's affecting how he's acting a year later. I don't think Edmund knows for sure, but I think he suspects, and that's coloring he and Peter are relating to each other. And Peter's -- gentler towards him, than he used to be. The tension is gone on Peter's part, but it's doubled on Edmund's.
Remember "The White City"? That takes place immediately before this. Or, actually, right in the middle of this, actually; Peter and Edmund coming back is Peter and Edmund coming back from this Belgarine war.
And so Caspian ends up in the middle of someone's assassination plot, or someone's -- eventually I'm going to figure out why there are armed men storming into Cair Paravel in the middle of a Big Political Event/Party/Ball. Narnian politics are messy. Telmarine Narnia doesn't really exist outside of Narnia; I think we can make a pretty good assumption that they have little, if any, interaction with the countries outside Narnia. Caspian is going to have next to no experience with foreign politics. Maybe he doesn't want Peter's empire, or to rebuild it. Maybe he realizes he can't rebuild it.
All empires must fall...and some things are certain.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-07 04:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-07 04:14 am (UTC)And no, it's not rude at all; I'd forgotten I'd actually put down a set number of years in "The White City."
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 03:59 am (UTC)He's got to know that if they could, they'd prevent Telmar from conquering Narnia, and thus *he'd* never be king...Is *that* what he's supposed to do, keep them from banning immigrants from Telmar, or from banning trade/contact with the country? Because that little contact that the Telmarine ruling class has with the rich country of Narnia, from their trade and from their spies' reports (smuggled in among the immigrants, as you said) gives them a taste for conquest that only the strong Narnian monarchy prevents them from acting on.
The Telmarines may not have caused the Dying Times, but they sure as hell profited by them. Maybe even kept going, whenever it looked like things were settling, then...moved in nd picked off a weak prey.
Huh. *eyes Caspian*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 04:22 am (UTC)And I talked a little more about the Telmarines in Narnia down below.
And there's no way for Caspian to know that he's supposed to do something. But from what little he sees of the Telmarines -- and Narnia's at undeclared war with the Telmarines right now, which people are more than happy to tell Caspian, and Caspian looks Telmarine, he has a Telmarine name, and he fights like a Telmarine, but Narnia has Telmarines of its own, now -- he can't possibly figure out how Telmar can take Narnia. Hmm.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 04:09 am (UTC)Huh. Must ponder.
The Dying Times. Someone who didn't invade Narnia during the Dying Times was Telmar, and I've been setting up why. (Some of that in this story, actually.) Telmar has huge political problems, and actually, they kind of parallel modern Telmarine Narnia's. When the Pevensies came into power in Narnia, the king of Telmar was Obregon, who was relatively friendly with Narnia. He had two sons, Beturian and Pelagian, and one brother, Marroquin. Pelagian, the younger son, at one point got himself engaged to Lucy. He also got himself killed by Lucy on their wedding day, courtesy of his trying to kill Peter. So two heirs to Obregon, then, Pelagian and Marroquin. Telmar also had religious troubles. There were a fair number of Aslan followers in Telmar, but the overwhelming majority of Telmarines, including the royal family, were followers of the Burned God and the thousand little gods. Obregon didn't particularly care, but Marroquin did, and he gallivanted all over Telmar persecuted Aslan followers, a large number of whom fled over the borders, especially into Narnia. Narnia's first refugees were from Telmar, lucy them. The Obregon died of an illness -- although almost everyone is pretty sure he was poisoned by Marroquin. Pelagian vanished from Telmar, and Marroquin took over. And promptly started terrorizing anyone he didn't agree with. More people fled Telmar, including the above Lord Absalian and his family. By the time "Old Timber" happens, Telmar's baiting Narnia's borders. Not regulars -- Telmar claims they're bandits -- but they're almost certainly regulars without banners. There are enough internal issues in Telmar -- including the Shoushan Empire perching on the border waiting to pounce at the slightest opportunity, and remember Shoushan, Shoushan is important (hell, remember of the westron countries, Shoushan is the only one that Caspian knows about a thousand years later in "Once More for the Ages") -- that by the time the Dying Times happen, Telmar is more than happy to sit back and let Natare, Belgarion, and Lasci rip Narnia apart.
The Shoushan Empire also didn't invade Narnia. Lasci, which Peter had conquered only a few years earlier (and I have to change this in "Old Timber", because I have the Lasci fiasco happening before "Old Timber" and it happens a few years later), secedes from Narnia, but Belgarion and Natare both pounce on it and argue over it for a bit. Natare and Belgarion are both bitter towards Narnia, and Narnia's a fertile land, a rich land, plenty of trade connections. It was Natare and Belgarion who wrought the most destruction on Narnia, but the giants came in from the north, the islands seceded, Calormene and Masongnongese and just plain pirate pirates attacked the coastline, Archenland carved out a huge piece of land -- and while Natare and Belgarion were ripping Narnia to shreds, Shoushan swept in and conquered both their lands. A century or so later Shoushan took Telmar too, and there were internal problems that led to some of the Telmarines fleeing into Narnia. The Dying Times actually ended when the Telmarines came into Narnia; they didn't start their slaughtering streak (Caspian the Conqueror wasn't the Telmarine who led the Telmarines into Narnia; he was the Telmarine who rose against the native Narnians and called himself King) for another century or so.
(Natare and Belgarion burned the forests down to the ground. When Caspian comes back to the Golden Age, he's never seen trees so tall or so thick.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 04:21 am (UTC)I just can't help but wonder if the Telmarine government found out they'd evetually end up ruling Narnia, what long-range plans would they start laying? If Peter & co found it out, what would *they* do, to try and stop it-and what would Caspian do, to make sure it happened anyways, because *he* wants to be king?
I think that's your hook.
*stares in complete fucking CONFUSION at your plot, btw*
*runs from it, skeered*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 04:38 am (UTC)Funny thing is that Caspian isn't descended from royalty. "And the first king was a lucky soldier..."
Irian recognizes Caspian's name. Maybe he was in the tent, or just outside when Peter and Edmund were interrogating Caspian, and Absalian will recognize Caspian's name. And he'll pass it on to his relations in Telmar, one of whom is Lieutenant Caspian of the Telmarine army. Although I kind of doubt they really need a reason to start conquering.
And they can't know. Peter and Edmund, I mean. Because they're shocked in PC, and whatever it is Caspian does, it can't be big then, because the mirror fucks with memory too. Caspian will remember -- the others won't.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 04:59 am (UTC)It's like the butterfly effect, something small being done or not done that accumulates over time into this big omigod THING.
Hmm...I wonder how long *centaurs* live? Perhaps the one big guy, what's his name in the movie, the prophecy-spouting one...maybe either him or his dad or mom was young when Caspian travelled back & they *saw* him there? So they might know that Caspian *is* going to be the new king...and then they zap him with the earth bond asap, to make sure he's got limits on him, with Peter and Edmund's co-operation. They don't necessarily *trust* him, so much as they know they can use him to get rid of Miraz and/or less reasonable Telmarine rule. Because Caspian is better than the alternative, book or movie canon. He's not a *bad* guy, just...not Narnian, not flexible enough to be what the country really needs for health and wealth, but still...he's trying to do some good stuff, even through his worldview of "I'm the King, so I can do what I want!"...
Man, I can't wait to see Edmund do the "you're not MY king. MY king is the High King Peter!" line and put him in his place. *grins*...I hope they include that. Hm, they should, given that they at least let Edmund be sassy, even when they're under-using him to a criminal degree. *frowns*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 05:59 am (UTC)God, yes, I hope they include that, because we need Edmund snapping at Caspian. And Caspian needs to be reminded he's king only by the grace of Peter.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 11:30 am (UTC)Peter was inducted into the bond by them, right? And there's no reason why the dryads couldn't live for centuries or more, given that they're *trees*. Nothing in canon has ever limited *their* lifespan, nor anything in the movies, other than being killed by weapons.
So any reason to trust Caspian could be because *they* know things and hustle him into the bond, etc.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 06:38 pm (UTC)I don't think we really need to give Peter and Co. an outside reason to trust Caspian; it works well enough without an outside impetus. I don't want to lose any human connection.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:18 am (UTC)That explains why I write stuff like this down the sides of my notes in class...
There was no high king in Narnia.
Cair Paravel sat silent in
waiting, and no voice of silver-
tongued Edmund, gold-throated Susan,
bell-laughed Lucy, could wake her.
The rains came. Narnia wept
for her lost king and his
absence was a great stroke to
the heart of Narnia. In
this dark time came the Natarenes,
westron reavers who sought green-
hilled Narnia for their own.
Out of the wild west came the
Natarenes, and Narnia
rose against them, led by
silver-tongued Edmund, Peter's
brother, king of Narnia,
and beautiful Queen Susan,
called Widowmaker, Heartsbane,
and Lucy Strongheart, Queen of
Morning. Without their High King,
Narnia went to war.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:22 am (UTC)I want to write a ballad about Edmund and a highwayman, but I cannot write the right kind of poetry. *stabs things*
Peter tried to stab the balladeer who wrote said ballad. That was entertaining...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:26 am (UTC)*snickers* The Lay of the High King is believed to have been written after the Pevensies left Narnia...
Now,
the Natarenes gathered many
men about them, blood-bonded
countrymen and bought sellswords
both. One such was the bold Red
Company, an old killers troop,
strong with fell men and women,
who answered hard-hearted Piero's
call. So old and so honored
was the Red Company that
Piero himself went to their
captain, nine-fingered Mathin,
to demand the company's
greatest swordsman for the
Eschmarnat. Clever Mathin,
beloved of the Seven, gave him
Breakneck, a young blade new come
to the company, entered
without name or memory, but
with such a skill with a sword
that he defeated ten strong
warriors, old and fell and honored
among the company.
[...]
It seemed that raven-browed
Edmund was retreating, stepping
back over the border into
Narnia. Breakneck followed,
but as he set foot on blood-
bonded Narnia's soil,
he fell senseless upon the
earth. The Natarenes surged
forward, but a voice stopped them.
"Step onto Narnian ground
and your lives will be forfeit,"
spoke clear-eyed Susan, her great
bow drawn in her hand. Thus
threatened, the Natarenes stopped,
staring with wolves' eyes as raven-
browed Edmund knelt down and drew
off Breakneck's helm. It was cold-
eyed Breakneck beneath, but his
face was familiar to Edmund
as his own sword. "Do you know
me, brother?" he said, and it
was gold-crowned Peter who looked
up at him, shocked and shaken.
"I know you," he said, voice and
mind clear of witchery at
last. He rose to his feet, gripping
lion-headed Rhindon in
his hand, and a great roar rose
up from the watching Narnians.
"Your High King has returned!"
cried Edmund Silvertongue, and
the Natarenes broke and wept
in fear, for they had not the
courage to face Peter
Bittersteel on the open
field.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:31 am (UTC)Um. That is a very good piece of epic poetry. It made me shiver.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-20 02:36 am (UTC)Most of the poetry has gone up somewhere; there's just the last bit, the introductory bit.
Listen, o man, and hear of the
glory of gold-crowned Peter.
Fire-eater, Bittersteel, Summer's King,
wise in council, strong in battle,
named High King over all kings of
green-hilled and blue-watered Narnia.
[...]
Far-eyed Edmund, justly named
Eagle of Narnia
fleet-footed, silver-tongued,
Evening's King, the Whisperer.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 01:38 am (UTC)Huh. Tragedy and inevitability. God, this is going to be a much more complicated story than I thought. (As you can see, I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:26 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:32 am (UTC)So. It's in Cair Paravel, right? How did Caspian come by *his*? Did somebody steal it from the Cair and take it to Telmar, for it to become one of *their* royal treasures or something?
Your damned complicated plot and timeline make me dizzy!!! *laughs*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:46 am (UTC)maybe edmund bargained his escape from jadis? or maybe he made her a promise (of stilted foreshadowing!) where he's like, "i will return to you. not as i am now, but i promise you i will return." and one hundred years later jadis sees a little boy in the woods, a son of adam, and bids her sleigh stop. (the last empress of charn has a long memory; she does not forget.) the boy tells her his name is edmund. of course it is. she smiles. he has returned to her.
i love how narnia fic is like one big "TAKE THAT" to historiography.
IMHO if caspian is a vehicle for a eulogy for narnia, then make him have reason to travel around narnia. make his eyes our eyes, his wonder our wonder, etc. what can he see for us, stuck in this border war? what does that achieve?
i like the idea of caspian going back to wish upon a white stag though, with some cool and crazy wish, possibly one that screws with history some more. inevitable is relative!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 06:35 am (UTC)What does he see? The army of Narnia, in all her glory. An empire has to have something to fall from as it crumbles down. This is what they fought for, this is what they died for. And a thousand years later, it's meaningless. No one remembers.
Oooh. Oh, that's it. That's something. The meaninglessness of what is now compared to what is remembered.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 08:44 pm (UTC)metafiction hooray!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:09 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-06 02:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-07 04:37 am (UTC)Also, if you are wondering who this random chick is who is stalking your posts, I read your first narnia fic and I loved it so much that I read all of your fics as they came and totally accepted your personal canon as my own, but I've never had a live journal account so I couldn't comment or anything. So its not like I just randomly popped up and started stalking, I've sort of been following the awsomeness of your Narnia for a while now. Just saying that makes me feel like such a creep. So, now I have an acount so that is why I'm commenting all of a sudden. Anyway, I just think you are such a talented writer and your actually my favorite in the whole Narnia fandom, and I hoped your not like, too creeped out, or whatever.
super long, sorta pointless explanations FTW!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-07 04:43 am (UTC)Aw, thank you very much.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-29 04:16 am (UTC)I notice you didn't include the part about Narnia pouncing on the newly-recovered Peter, via poor Edmund...wonder what the Telmarines would have thought of *that*! "Very close family, indeed." *rotfl*
I still don't like the *style*, because ye olde lay poetry doesn't do much for me. But you do it well. *pats you*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-29 04:30 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-29 04:37 am (UTC)It sounds old, but not "Narnian"; so a translation, yes-and I doubt it would have been written at the time...perhaps later, as people tried to save their memories and history from dying off. I doubt the Telmarines would have easy access to the peoples who'd have the more private inforation on the Kings and Queens, you know? Just surface folk tales and legends, so that would be part of the reason for inaccuracy.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-29 04:52 am (UTC)Er. That was a long-winded way of saying that's where the poem may have come from. That or it's a remnant from some of the human Narnians -- I'd bet on the Ansketts expats, personally, just because of the style and because they're survivors.