food for thought

[bedlamsbard]

It's almost the weekend. *stares* I just have the one more class, which is the first band rehearsal of the year. Of course, I have to figure out how to actually add it as a class, since TOUR wouldn't let me during the add/drop period, and now that's over. I know it's possible.

I was thinking today about how my Lucy characterization differs from Narnia fandom's accepted characterization, especially Lucy post-Narnia. A lot of fandom has Lucy characterized as the one of the Pevensies being least able to adapt to England, when I have her the exact opposite way: she adapts quickest, and it's the easiest for her. And the reason for that is set up in "In Constellated Wars" and "All Fall Down" -- she doesn't remember Narnia as well as the others do, and she's the youngest and most adaptable. And I think this is borne out in book canon as well -- the last time she's in Narnia is in VotDT, of course, and she's -- less of a queen, to an extent? Not quite as Narnian as Edmund, at least. There's the scene at the magician's island where she's using magic to spy on her schoolfriends, and there's an answer right there -- she has schoolfriends, and she's doing the relatively petty teenage girl thing. "What? You like HER better than you like ME? I shall never speak to you again!" It's not something Queen Lucy would do. (I don't think PC Lucy would have pulled that off, either, she's...older? Mentally, I think, in PC? As compared to VotDT. It's...complicated. Ask me to explain it, if you'd like.) I can't see Susan doing that post-Narnia; Susan plays at being more Narnian than she is English, but she's still very much Queen Susan. And neither Peter nor Edmund would do the equivalent male action; Peter just doesn't give a damn about England, period, and Edmund's play-acting almost as much as Susan is. He cares, but not to the extent that Lucy does. He's more aware of the demarcation between Narnia and England.

The reason this comes up is because I'm switching back and forth between my various Narnia playlists, as I am wont to do, and a lot of the time the stuff I haven't thought about consciously comes out in my music choices. Lucy and Edmund's music, compared to Susan and Peter's, is a lot more hopeful leaving/post-Narnia, for various reasons. It's sad and wistful and all that, but there's an undercurrent of hope and relief both, an undercurrent of, "Well, thank God that's over." Two songs especially for Lucy: The Wrights' "Butterflies" (and I'm sorry, I can't find the lyrics online right now; I'll try and transcribe the relevant parts later) and Emmylou Harris' "One of these Days". And the Harris especially, because of this line: "One of the days I'll look back and I'll say I left in time."

Edmund's playlist is interesting, too, for similar reasons. He's a little less wistful, a little more upbeat and looking straight ahead (in VotDT he accepts without a word of protest the change that's coming, that he's been barred from Narnia forever), but he changes to bitter near the end of the playlist. Song example here: Bruce Cockburn's "Tie Me At the Crossroads," and, "As the echoes of our passing fade, all there is to say is, 'You know that I loved you all in my particular way'."

As compared to Peter's playlist, which is kind of irrevocably intertwined with the Peter/Narnia playlist from Peter's POV and the Peter/Narnia playlist from Narnia's POV (it's kind of interesting, and one of these days I'll have to sit down and untangle the three of them. The Narnia POV is the closest to being done), and consists of doom and gloom "my baby done left me" country, and Susan's playlist, which speaks for itself.

Comments

[starsimpulse.livejournal.com]

wow. You sort of fascinate me.

I totally agree with your characterization of Lucy. Well, sort of. On one hand it makes compleate sense that she adapts the best, for all the reasons you stated above, but on the other hand, I think people underestimate how crazy hard it would be to go from being an adult to being freaking ten years old. The others had to deal with that too, but I guess I always thought it would be a little bit easier for them because they were slightly more grown up, but Lucy, she would be so royally messed-up. I don't understand how she diddn't lose her mind and go compleately insane. But then again, I think after a year or so (well, less than a year, because she's relatively normal by PC, though in my world there's a year and a half gap between LWW and PC which helps my brain make sense of Lucy and Edmund looking so much older in PC than in LWW, but i digress) of compleatly breaking down and going insane, I think she would like, get over it, because she would forget and it would definetly make sense that she would adjust the best of all of them. I hope you can make some sort of sense of that.

Also, I adore that you have all these Narnian playlists; they make me happy. *goes off and listens to them*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I get that. One of the things that helps explain the Pevensies' different reactions to Narnia/England is how much or how little they remember -- Peter remembers the most (a.k.a. EVERYTHING) as the eldest, and then Susan, but it's harder for her ("In Constellated Wars": "It's always been yesterday for me"), and it's worse for Edmund, who remembers in a combination of details and impressions (this hasn't come up yet, but Edmund's actually pretending to remember a lot more than he does; he's working off a combination of Peter and Susan's reactions, his own memory, and what he's remembering from visual and other cues in Narnia), and then Lucy remembers almost completely impressions, not details at all. (I'm, um, not sure if "impressions" makes sense to anyone but me, because that's how I parse the world. Certain things feel like...well, certain things. If that makes sense.) And they remember more the longer they're in Narnia.

Anyway, the majority of my Lucy's Narnian memories (as compared to body memory and instinct, the things that go bone-deep) come from PC and VotDT, rather than her time in the Golden Age. Edmund remembers Caspian's time with more clarity, but he remembers a pretty significant portion of the Golden Age.

Also, I agree with you on there being a year and a half or so between LWW and PC. I think LWW takes place in spring or summer in England (and winter in Narnia!) and PC takes place at the beginning of autumn in England, because they're all heading off to school (and summer in Narnia!), but, well -- *shrugs*

My Narnia playlists make me happy too. And I swear that when they're complete (and the Peter/Narnia is closest to being done), they'll go up.

[starsimpulse.livejournal.com]

this hasn't come up yet, but Edmund's actually pretending to remember a lot more than he does; he's working off a combination of Peter and Susan's reactions, his own memory, and what he's remembering from visual and other cues in Narnia

This really fascinates me, but it makes alot of sense because Edmund is a super-ninja-genius and can peice things together like BAM, although it does make me sad that he has to try so hard. Do the others know that he doesn't remember as much as he claims he does? Poor, Edmund,(Poor Susan, poor Pevensies. Why do I love this so much when it is so damn tragic?) not only having to pretend he's normal for England but also, having to pretend he remembers everything from The Golden Age for Narnia and for the Narnians and his siblings. I can feel my heart breaking for him. Your Edmund (who I have sort of adopted as my own along with, you know, your whole Narnia universe) makes me want to cry because of all of the crap that happens to him, (mostly I am referencing Peter/Narnia(/Edmund) and am amazed that they even come close to resembling something like functioning because they just use him so ruthlessly but somehow they end up in a place where they not only can function but they are like okay? with it and it has become normal? idk)

Your Lucy, though, she makes alot of sense, and it is refreashing for her not to be as heartbreaking (sorta) as the rest of them. I keep thinking about her in PC and how she say's things like "I wish you'd all stop trying to act like grown-ups," like she isn't one herself and "I'm sure when I'm older I'll understand," like she hasn't done that a thousand times before (because you know Golden Age!Lucy was a whore, but in a good way, lol) and how that shows just how much she's forgotten. Actually, it makes me incredibly sad that she has forgotten so much because I sort of love Golden Age!Lucy and it makes me sad that Lucy doesn't remember her. I like what you say about things that go bone deep because no matter how much she forgets, there are some things that will stay with her forever, and that is really comforting.

If I make it a year and a half I can say that Edmund was 12 and a half in LWW and then I can justifiy him being 14 in PC because he does not look 13 (I'm pretty sure Skandar was 16 when he was filming so ... ) I think your right about the season thing. I believe you anyway.

Yay! for Peter/Narnia playlist. *prepares for massive amounts of creepy/awesome but mostly creepy*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

This realization depresses the hell out of me -- I mean, they're all so broken, and as close as they are to functioning in PC -- and they get more and more so as the movie goes on; Peter's almost, almost back at being the High King he was right before he went missing by the time of the battle, and he's the one recovering the fastest (of course, in some ways, he also has the farthest to go) -- they're just not, because there's so much missing and there's so much changed.

I think Lucy or Susan is eventually going to call him on it -- my money's on Lucy, because of her frustration about how, well, they're all trying to act like grown-ups. Peter may -- but only if Edmund messes up and something they're talking about doesn't line up, or if Edmund slips up some other way. (The interesting thing about Peter is that there's so much he doesn't notice, because it literally doesn't ping his radar unless it's something he considers important, and one never knows what he's going to consider important. He's aware of a hell of a lot more than most people think, but he doesn't really notice it. See: "Which chess set?")

Oh, my Lucy totally slept around the most of any of the Pevensies. But -- God, they're all heartbreaking. Anyone who says Narnia isn't a tragedy in seven acts (hell, or the traditional five if we drop Magician's Nephew and Horse and His Boy) is blind as a bat.

Okay, for emphasis on how creepy the Peter/Narnia soundtrack is (and it alternates between "aw, aren't they sweet", which is more disturbing than I care to admit, "really freaking creepy", and "my baby done left me" country), it includes these songs: Hands Clean (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alanismorissette/handsclean.html), Alanis Morisette, and All For Believing (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/missyhiggins/allforbelieving.html), Missy Higgins. And I really don't think I can say just how creepy those two songs are, in concert, with lyrics, but I can try.

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

A lot of fandom has Lucy characterized as the one of the Pevensies being least able to adapt to England

Huh, interesting. When I first hit Narnia fandom, for that month or so, everyone I read was assuming it would be EASIEST for Lucy, for all the reasons you've stated. So I went right the other way, and gave her a complete and total breakdown in my first major Narnia fic.

I'm having trouble synchronising that with my VOTD fic, though. She's all well-adjusted now, and I'm not sure why. I think I need to write her in PC-era and see what's happened... my Lucy is every bit the Queen on the Treader, but I think something happened in PC which helped her adjust to England, too. *frowns* And I do need to think about Wizards Island some more. Mostly when I think about Wizard's Island I think 'oooh, ROOMS! Probably with WEIRD EQUIPMENT in them! I CAN STAGE A RAVAGING!' And then Lucy goes right out of my poor little head.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*frowns* Read just one fic where Lucy hangs herself in England and it kind of makes an impression...

What, isn't Lucy getting any loving?

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

eew, no. Nonono. No hangings. I did have her babbling at Dumb Animals, I think. Hard to tell, since I told the whole story in letters written by other people who were worried about her but not giving anyone the full story. Fairly sure she tried to talk to her new kitten and then had hysterics at it.

Nono, no ravagings for Lucy. I have a constitutional opposition to Lucy-sex. Except now I have to marry her off and get her pregnant, which will take some thought. CERTAINLY not writing Lucy/Corin in any detail.

Lucy makes a good wife, though. She and Caspian make the most adorable sexless couple. Next fic coming up, I think, has Lucy sitting around darning Caspian's socks while telling him about all the people she executed for rape in the Golden Age.
Lucy and Corin will be a good pair, too. Good friends, good partners. I just can't get my head around Lucy-sex. Possibly she lies back and thinks of Narnia, but, this being Lucy, thinking of Narnia is what she likes to do best.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*cough* I am constitutionally incapable of writing long stories set post-Narnia. Well, I do want to write the one where Peter and Susan go out clubbing and then get in a barfight with a bunch of drunk soldiers (possibly this is the time Susan put makeup on Peter), but that would require me learning about clubs (or the equivalent) in 1940s London, and that's research. And there's just not really much I want to say about Lucy...

realpestilence made me write Lucy sex. Except me being me, I wrote it from Peter's perspective, and he was so damn exhausted that all he saw was, "Oh. Lucy. And some woman I don't know."

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHA. PETER in makeup. FABULOUS.

I liked that Lucy-sex. But your Lucy is so very differnet from mine...

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I REALLY want to write cross-dressing Peter. No, I have no idea why...

Well, all your characters are so very different from mine, too, so fair's fair!

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

My Peter's starting to pick up bits of yours at times. I had him freak Caspian out the other day, just before the duel with Miraz.

Peter: are you enjoying our little adventure?
Caspian: but you might die!
Peter: the BEST KIND of adventure!

He's better off than your Peter, though. If I were to write Narnia/anyone it'd be Narnia/Lucy. BRAIN NO. NO NARNIA/LUCY/CORIN. NONONO.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*snickers* Oh, huh, at some point I have to write my night-before-the-duel PC scene. No, there is no sex.

Peta/Caspian before the duel is going to be fun...

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I read that one! It was really good!

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

*blinks* which one?

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

Your Lucy goes crazy and everyone worries through letters one.

[ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com]

oh! I'm glad you liked it! *squees*

[vivien]

Oh... is there really a prevalence of thought that Lucy has a hard time adapting? I never got that. She has the easiest time shifting from world to world, since she is sure of her place within both. In my opinion, anyway.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Okay, like I said to ineptshieldmaid above, read just one fic where Lucy hangs herself (from her wardrobe!) and it makes kind of an impression...

[vivien]

....Oh dear.

No, I think I'll skip that experience, thanks. ;-)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think that was one of the fics that turned me off reading Narnia fic.

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

One thing I've always thought interesting about your version of the characters versus mine is that it's my LUCY who's the closest to Narnia. She has ties to the trees, to the earth, to all the creatures talking and non. She's the closest to Aslan, and the one who really takes the spirit of Narnia within herself.

She's able to adjust the best, simply because there's no doubt in her mind that England is temporary - very "Ho-hum, so this is the way they do things here in this strange place. Got it. Should be going home any minute now."

Peter loves Narnia, of course, because he's the High King, but he rather loves more what Narnia represents. The nobility, the justice, the harmony, etc. He has the hardest time adjusting at first, because England doesn't have any of that really, but after PC (when he realizes that he doesn't have to be the one getting the throne to make changes) he throws himself into trying to make England as Narnia-like as possible; he goes to war, goes to law school, gets involved in politics and charities.

For Edmund, Narnia represented his change, his redemption. He has a hard time coming back to everyone being used to him the way he was, so he becomes very quiet. He also is the one who throws himself into organized religion (Peter and Susan believe, but it's more of a duty thing. Lucy goes to church but really lives her faith more than merely practicing it). He's torn between entering the Priesthood and Lawschool. He's utterly terrified of betraying his family and faith again, and thus the Priesthood would be a nice, safe, temptationless place, whereas if he became a lawyer he could do more good (he's still trying to redeem himself in his own mind), but it would be much more difficult to live up to his own standards. He feels his title ("The Just") weighing more heavily on him than the others do.

Susan eventually has the hardest time because she has no clear cut "I loved Narnia because of this. She loved her time in the court, and so tries to throw herself into a social life, but it lacks the purpose of court. After the train wreck she tries to throw herself into the arts - music, poetry, paint - trying to recreate the beauty of the land, but it falls short. She moves to America and becomes a nun, but leaves the catholic church because as a woman who has fallen asleep on the heaving ribs of God, she has a hard time praying to Saints or the Madonna instead of him.

She basically bounces around, job to job and church to church until one day she looks around and finds herself married to a man she's in love with, three children she adores, a church she's attended for nearly a decade, a group of women who all get together twice a week for some kind of charity, and realizes she's the happiest she's ever been, in Narnia or England.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Oh, huh. Interesting.

I think one of the major differences between my Narnia and most people's Narnia is that my Narnia is very much a separate entity in her own right; she's not a part of Aslan or anything like that. (Cair Paravel's also a separate entity, but at that point we get really confusing.)

And one has perhaps noticed that I tend to downplay the religion aspect in the books.

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

Which really, really makes your verses interesting. Aslan as evil? (or at least, not quite good?)

Weeeeeiiiiird. But cool. And all kinds of intriguing.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Aslan as selfish deity with his own interests, which sometimes align with Narnia's and sometimes don't. Man, growing up with the Greek gods influenced me a lot; I do not get the whole "one god who loves everyone" thing at all.

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

You grew up with the Greek gods? As in, worshiping them, or just reading about them?

I've been curious about your beliefs for ages, but never got around to asking.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

ahahahaha, this is a funny story. See, my mother's Buddhist and my daddy's agnostic, or atheist, or something, I don't know, and so my daddy decided that he'd let me choose my own religion, he'd just expose me to all of them, except without that pesky going to church thing. So he'd start early on and progress forward all the way to Christianity. He started with the Greek gods/myths. I kind of got stuck on the Greek gods.

As a result, I probably have one of the weirdest belief systems ever. I believe in fate, I believe in multiple gods, but I don't believe the gods particularly care about individual people, I believe there's a bigger picture out there -- a cosmic chessboard, if you will, and that everything happens for a reason, or that there's a cosmic tapestry the fates are weaving -- no, it gets really weird, I don't even know.

I mean. Yes.

[lyamainu.livejournal.com]

Whoah. That's pretty intense. And sorta mind bending. Do you worship(?) the gods, or just acknowledge that they exist? Also, do they have names? Like Zeus, Hera, etc?

Lol, it was sort of a running joke in high school (our group had all different religions in it) that we'd die, and find out the Greeks were right.

"Hello God...Gods...Goddesses... oh #$@*!"

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Uh, well, my default is the Greek gods, but I don't really worship them, per se. I mean, I know they're out there, and occasionally I do send up a prayer to Athena or whatnot, but I'm not...fanatic about it, or particularly occupied with it.