beyond the wide world&#39;s end

Dude, I have no idea. Peter plays Natarene solitaire, Edmund comes in and demands to know if Peter really has his memory back, Peter yells at him, Edmund reads tarot. I GOT NOTHIN'.

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ghostrunner7.livejournal.com

Anyone on my flist read tarot cards?

Uh. Yes, actually.

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*bats eyelashes* Would you give me an idea of what a reading might sound like? (Or look like; I got no idea. I am increasingly bitter over the fact my friend Emily got her palm read instead of going to a tarot reader like she originally planned when we were down in Jackson Square in the Quarter on Saturday..)

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ghostrunner7.livejournal.com

ugh. sorry, internet problems. Look's like you've got it pretty well figured out from other people.

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Thank you anyway!

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I tend to have tarot spreads a few times a year. My memory of what each card stands for is lacking, but I have a good grasp on it.

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Could you tell me what the actual process of tarot is? Or what a reading might sound like? Because I really don't know, and the Internet is confusing.

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Well, there are tons of different ways of reading the cards but my favorite way is through the Celtic Cross spread.
http://www.learntarot.com/ccross.htm
The website explains pretty well which each card is supposed to mean when it is in a certain spot in the spread.
When it comes down to the cards there are the Major Arcana, Wands (or rods), cups, pentacles (or coins), and swords. When it comes to the wands, cups, pentacles, and swords you will find an Ace - King like a standard deck of cards, but instead of a Jack you will have a Knight and Page. Also, each card has its own meaning.
I totally suggest Wikipedia to see what the cards look like. The illustrations are really cool and are also influential in a reading.

I know that is vague but if you have any specific questions I'll try my best to answer them.

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Oh I realized you wanted to know how a reading goes. lol.

Usually when I start I take out the card that is most similar to me. These cards are always taken from Page, Knight, Queen, and King. For example my card is the Page of Cups (only women can be queens, men can only be kings, both can be knights and pages).
Then laying out 'my' card I start to shuffle the deck. While shuffling you have the cards face down. While mixing them around you ask your question out loud or to yourself, but you always focus on the question. When the deck feels 'right' you take them into your left hand split it into three piles with your left hand dropping off a little pile from the bottom starting right and ending to the left. Repile the 3 sections into a single deck by taking the rightest pile and placing it on top the next left pile and then the last left pile. Now you're ready to spread the cards.
If someone is reading for you make sure they recieve the deck the way it was facing you or the reading will not be correct.
When taking the cards off the deck you flip them to the side so the card doesn't give the wrong meaning. Upsidedown and rightside up matters in tarot.
At this point you can do any spread and as I said before my favorite is the Celtic Cross.
Hope this helps!

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Man, if anyone who actually knows anything about tarot reads this scene, they're going to laugh at me...oh, well, fantasy.

Thank you muchly!

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You're welcome. I love reading whatever you write so even if it's all messed up it's Peter and Edmund.

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Actually, if you don't mind, let me put up the scene so that you can tell me if it even fakes making sense or not?

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alright, I can tell ya if it sounds legit.

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(As one can probably tell, I made up all the suits. *rolls eyes*)

On a whim, he spreads out the first seven cards on the top of the deck face-down in front of Peter. It's not a reader's deck like Gaesa Ganting taught him on, but she'd also taught him how to read from any deck of cards.

Peter eyes him warily. "I'd forgotten you did that," he says, suddenly uneasy. "Second from the left," he adds, reluctantly, and Edmund flips the card over.

"Three of Axes," he says after a minute where he has to stop and count cards, comparing the deck in front of him to the one he'd learned on. "War and conflict."

"I could have told you that," Peter grumbles. "Third from the right."

"Maiden of Stones," Edmund says. "That's subtle," he adds sarcastically. "Any reason you're so jumpy? You never used to care?"

"Things change," Peter says again. "First on the right. Ossian and I and some of the 'Hawks went out one night, when we were over the border in Salicar. There was a bone reader there."

"Nine of Stars -- er, that's the, er --" he racks his brain, trying to remember. "That's the Broken Castle. What did your Salican bone reader say?"

"Second on the right," Peter says, and runs a hand distractedly through his hair, the flicker of light in the lanterns glinting off his signet ring. "Betrayal," he says at last. "She said I'd be betrayed and my house destroyed -- but that I'd live forever. It didn't make any sense at the time."

"Seldom does," Edmund notes. "Ace of Ships. That's a journey, I think. Did you believe her?"

Peter drums his fingers on the table, expression uneasy. "Not at the time. Now, though...fourth from the right."

"Six of Arrows -- that's the Widow. Why now and not before?"

He shrugs. "Does it matter? First on the left."

"King of Axes. If I didn't think it didn't matter, I wouldn't have asked."

"You're the one who believes in this stuff, not me," Peter says. "That I remember."

Edmund turns over the last card. "Seven of Stones," he says. "The Felon --"

Peter puts his hand down over the cards. "I don't want to know," he says firmly. "I've had my future foretold often enough before, and I'd rather not know."

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I like this alot, and on the tarot front sounds like a good Narnia spread to me. <-- there are just so many ways of reading the cards. By the way, I love how Peter already knows the cards he wants unfolded first.
Passes my inspection if that has any credit to it. lol.

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YAY. Thank you muchly!

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franceica.livejournal.com

I actually play around with a tarot deck sometimes; but I am not anything good at deciphering or anything of the sort though. I am just playing, really. And I am the sort that think while there are some people who actually can read the implications of the card accurately, majority of people just do it for fun and like divination in Harry Potter, entirely not accurate. *shrugs* I am open to the idea of mysterious powers, but I doubt it will be possessed by a large number.

But seriously, what's going on? *stares*

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I thought I'd see what's going on behind closed doors that Caspian can't see (in "Old Timber"). Apparently Peter is playing Natarene solitaire and getting frustrated, and Edmund is reading tarot.

...yeah, I don't get it either. Although. In context of the fic, I suppose it's kind of a nice touch.

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burntcopper.livejournal.com

:blink: are we still going with Narnia as co-current with medieval? when did they start using cards as tarot anyway aside from standard gaming cards?

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Why would Narnia be co-current with medieval? It's a fantasy kingdom; if they want to use tarot cards, they can use tarot cards. Although I rather think the tarot cards are an import, and actually, looking back at the snippet, I don't think they're Narnian tarot cards (or that Edmund learned on, anyway); they're an import.

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burntcopper.livejournal.com

don;t mind me, I get fixated on that setting.

Mm, though since tarot cards in this universe were originally a more complex version of our current western set (the normal ones + a bunch of wild card trumps), you could have it as a thing that'd been around in Narnia for awhile pre-Jadis taking over. And then figure out who'd segue into what wild card. have you got established in your 'verse whether Jadis was known about pre-taking over or not? Because if she was, there's a chance that she might appear as one of the characters in another country's set. eg, Aslan as the Emperor, Jadis as the High Priestess.

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In my 'verse, Jadis was in Narnia for a few decades before she took over, and she was ruling Narnia for anywhere from a few years to a few decades before the Long Winter began. So. *shrugs*

To be fair, though, looking at the scene as it's presented now, Edmund didn't learn to read tarot in Narnia; he learned it when he was traveling with a group of Tatuie performers (which are the equivalent of gypsies, or something? Maybe?) (this is the time he juggled knives and snuck into Telmar to meet personally with a spy). And he's not even reading off tarot cards, he's just reading off a regular deck of cards.

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katakokk.livejournal.com

....Is this part of the werewolf story? *DED*

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AHAHAHA no, it's Warsverse, which is, um, terrifying. Learn something new every day, you know.

Although now I want werewolf!Edmund to read tarot cards.

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katakokk.livejournal.com

Oh dear, what have I done?

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Look on the bright side, the werewolf story is probably going to turn into an original, and also my NaNovel.

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It seems like something Edmund would approach both as an intellectual exercise (like chess) and as the divination tool intended. It doesn't seem like a Narnian thing, though...they're more stars-and-water-gazing. Or entrail-reading, for the dark ones (ugh).

Possibly one of his spies taught him, or one of the merchants, or a member of the Palace Guard, whiling away a long night on watch...:)

I had my cards read last year, when I went to a literary convention. It was surprising how accurate the reading was. Very interesting process.

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Remember that time he was out with a gypsy troop juggling knives to sneak into Telmar? This is apparently when he learned how to read tarot cards, and Peter? Peter doesn't want his cards read at all.

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Ah, I can see that. And no, I'm sure Peter *doesn't* want them read-if he believes in the power of the cards, he might be afraid to find out things about himself/his past that he still hasn't remembered, as well as his future; and if he doesn't believe in the power of the cards, he might just be afraid of whatever withering or too-sharp insights into him that Edmund will unleash. Or both.

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There's a bit of it up above, where I threw the actual tarot scene at

reni_m.

This is me trying to figure out what's going on during "Old Timber" that Caspian's not seeing; apparently, it's Edmund trying to figure out just how much Peter remembers or doesn't remember post-losing his memory. It's kind of an interesting parallel to Edmund demanding to know (way earlier, back to the faked betrayal) why Peter can't just trust him; this time, it's Peter demanding to know why Edmund can't just believe him.

And Edmund grinds his teeth and thinks to himself, Peter never used to be this good a liar.

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Because Edmund *knows* Peter that well...? Because he hates being shut out of a part of his brother's life, even if Peter couldn't help it? The trust issue, which in Peter's case might be more "why can't you just *leave it alone*-we can't fix it?", rather than "believe me".

Because I think Edmund's right-if the Natarene's made enough of an impression on Peter, whatever/however/whyever, that after 15 years of belonging to Narnia and only one year of belonging to *them*, he's still showing quirks of habits picked up...then something's off.

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*nods* Little bit of everything. And, well, they're going to war, but this is the first time Peter's been fighting for Narnia since they got him back from Natare. Is he really all there? Can they trust him not to freak, or to make the right decisions? (At least that's the excuse Edmund's saying to Peter's face; while it might be part of it, I highly doubt it's the real reason.)

For a long moment Edmund doesn't answer, studying his brother's face. It's the same it's always been -- except for the new scars, the ones he didn't see Peter get. The ones Peter didn't get, but Breakneck did. "You don't remember, do you?" he asks at last.

Peter's jaw works silently, then he says, "You'll have to be more specific."

Edmund doesn't have to be; that's all the answer he needs. They'd all thought so -- but they hadn't known, not for sure. This is the closest thing to a confession they're likely to get from Peter, because he's good at pretending, better than they'd ever thought he was or could be. Before -- and now there's just "before" and "after" -- Edmund would never have guessed that Peter could lie the way he's been lying to them the past seven months. He's not sure even he could keep up a disguise for that long.

The words hang in the air between them. Edmund watches the heat rise to Peter's cheeks, but his brother doesn't look away. It's Edmund who does that at last, the faint blush of shame coloring his conviction that knowing the truth is absolutely, positively necessary. Forcing Peter to admit his weaknesses isn't something he's comfortable doing, but it's something he has to do. They need to know if the High King they're entertaining is Peter of Narnia -- or Breakneck the Natarene merc wearing a mask.

And some days, a quirk is just a quirk. But if not...

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How long has Peter been bound to Narnia & Edmund, at this point? I'm wondering...it might have been a relief to be ALONE in his head and hard to get used to the earth-tie again.

It's a very valid question, all other issues aside-can they trust him in battle, much less signing documents,etc?

I like the way Edmund's "not sure even he could keep up a disguise for that long" & the way your Peter blushes when flirted with or embarrassed. Edmund's composure and quiet nature is such that he *would* be good at disguise, while Peter's so very much more in-your-face with his emotions, you'd never have to guess at them...doubly disturbing, then, when Edmund loses it or when Peter manages to be so discreet. *ponders*

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This is the Belgarine War, so per "The White City" this is nine years in. Peter's had a low-level awareness of Narnia since he was originally bound, but she's only really been consciously interacting with him since the ritual, which is four years in (or three, or two. goddamnit). Peter went missing in year six or seven; he was missing for somewhere around a year, year and a half, and at this point, he's been back in Narnia for seven months. Make of that tangled mess what you will. *waves hands* Although one must remember that Narnia probably messed with Peter's head to make him more amenable to the earth-bond; I'm almost certain he wasn't as comfortable with it before he went missing as he was after he came back, which has got to freak the others out, because if anything was expected to make a still amnesia-ed up High King -- hell, a high strung mercenary; never mind the High King part -- freak, it would have been the part where he had a talking country in his head. And yet -- nothing.

Peter slams his fist down on the table, making the cards jump and scatter. "Gods damn it, Ed!" he snarls. "I know who the hell I am. It's been seven months, seven months of you and the girls treating me like glass, seven months of all Cair Paravel tiptoeing around me and trying to abuse the privilege of having the High King back on his throne. What the hell does it take, little brother, interpretive dance? Or would that have the opposite effect, because I might use a Natarene step, and where would Narnia be then? I was there for more than a a year; I'm not going to go back to being who I used to be just because I remember who that is. Things change. Would it help if I sent out heralds proclaiming that fact?"

(Okay, that was the last quote. But.)

...now I want Edmund to lose his temper. Huh. Must do that sometime.

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Well, has Peter given any thought to the fact that Edmund and the girls have lost their brother and friend, not just the High King? They miss him...and as Peter says, he's not changing back to who he was, and they're trying to get to know a stranger. A stranger who doesn't talk to them or trust them like their brother did. :(

Plus, Edmund's got to be bothered by it on a deeper level, because he's used to getting some kind of feedback from the Peter/Narnia link and who he's getting in his head now is very different from what he's used to. It's like having a stranger in *his* head, almost, and one he's lucky enough to *always know where he is*, so he can keep an eye on him-which is the kind of thing *his* Peter would have understood and *wanted* him to do! All the reasons that made Peter and Edmund the closest are reasons why it's so hard on Edmund to let it go, now. *glares, misses his big brother*

Maybe. *raises brow*

You know that bit you did about Narnia possessing Edmund for sex with the newly recovered Peter? I meant to comment on that and didn't get to it. Do you know where it is, by any chance?

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