bedlamsbard: natasha romanoff from the black widow prelude comic (Default)
[personal profile] bedlamsbard
...great, now I have to wait for my copy of PC to arrive just so I can look at the geography around Cair Paravel. Except then I'll probably end up ignoring it anyway, and clearly we aren't getting actual movie canon evidence of Telmarine Cair Paravel until SC comes out in, like, 2012. And clearly I'm not waiting that long to write Dust 6.

OKAY. The answer here is ask people very nicely what they noticed, look up the beach they filmed that bit on, look at the map of the shoreline, and logic it out from there. Caspian didn't build on the nameless island, but he built relatively near it -- within a day's ride, probably less -- good natural harbor, the castle a mar has to be on a cliff -- I established the White Cliffs of Morgencolla in "The White City", so I suppose that would be a decent place, except I don't think the White Cliffs have a harbor. Except New Cair Paravel could be like Athens, and the harbor could be a couple miles away. That is an option. But I definitely want cliffs.

*stares at official Narnia map* Is it. So damn hard. To make a NEW MAP? Since the coastline clearly changed between LWW and PC; Old Cair Paravel is now an island. We could put New Cair Paravel on the headland where Old Cair Paravel used to be, which is the most logical place because that's where the mouth of the Great River is, and then the nameless island (if one has not yet figured it out, the nameless island is the island where the ruins of Old Cair Paravel are) could be in the harbor. Like the Statue of Liberty. Except less, you know, welcoming, because of the whole "haunted by bloodthirsty ghosts" thing.

*bats eyelashes* Anybody who has PC already, or gets it some time before I do (which is probably going to be late next week or early the week after; I ordered it from Amazon), or has really good screencaps of the mainland around Cair Paravel -- any chance you want to tell me about it? I mean, chances are I'm just going to make this up anyway, but it would be nice to have some semi-canonical support.

ETA: There are pictures, and they are friggin' gorgeous. I mean, after this I get to google castles and try and figure out what Caspian would have built and how it would have been built on top of a cliff (elements of Telmarine and Narnian architecture, emphasis on the Telmarine because Caspian is Telmarine and Narnian because he would have been trying to imitate the Cair Paravel he saw in Cornelius' books, but New Cair Paravel wouldn't have the "grew out of the ground" aspect that Old Cair Paravel had), but whatever, castles aren't that hard to google, unlike, say, CLIFFS.

Cathedral Cove, Ha Hei Beach, Coromandel, New Zealand 2 3 (and then I abruptly remembered that this is the nameless island, not the mainland. CRAP.)

Mercury Bay, Coromandel, New Zealand 2

Hereherataura, Coromandel, New Zealand

Except those are all film sites for the nameless island, not the mainland. *bites lip* And the rest of the New Zealand sites are the river, and everything else was filmed in the Czech Republic and Poland.

ETA2: Oh my God, if I have to look up clothes on top of geography, cliffs, and castles -- I am taking my costuming cues from Stardust, which means Peter is now dressed like Tristan. Does anyone, uh, want to tell me what era of history that's from? Victorian? Or I could knock it back to PotC style; they don't actually seem to be all that different despite the two hundred year gap. I definitely want it to seem like time has progresed from the Golden Age and from Caspian's time, which leaves out your general period fantasy garb, a.k.a. the majority of the LotR stuff except for the hobbits. That'd work, probably.

You know what would be nice? If costuming fans did not focus on just the women ninety percent of the time. It's a lot harder to find pictures of men's costumes than of women's. I mean, yeah, the women have gorgeous dresses and all that, but it doesn't help when you're trying to dress the boys.

Funnily enough, the one point of description in Dust and my other Narnia fic seems to be that I describe the clothes. Not the scenery, not the characters, just the clothes. This is funny because I don't actually know all that much about clothes. *sigh*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animus-wyrmis.livejournal.com
The books are actually, um, online. (I think illegally. But. They're there.) Would that help?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animus-wyrmis.livejournal.com
And the link. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/247942/C-S-Lewis-Chronicles-of-Narnia-Complete)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animus-wyrmis.livejournal.com
(And, upon rereading, I realize you meant the movie. Duh. But the books might, er, come in handy later?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:21 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
I have the books. (I had them shipped from home specifically so I could reference them for Dust! And since then I have used them, like, twice. Would have been nice to find them online sometime before then. *sigh*) I mean, I know where I could find the movie too, just -- waiting.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:23 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:33 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
That is awesome, but not particularly. *sigh* Right, this translates to googling to figure out where they filmed it and hoping there are pictures onlilne.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almostinstinct.livejournal.com
...I could make some caps.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:35 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
And I would love you forever, and possibly write fic.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almostinstinct.livejournal.com
Gimme a minute. LOL.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:53 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Hey, I'm not going anywhere.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almostinstinct.livejournal.com
And by "a minute", I mean an hour. LOL. I'll finish eventually!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 05:06 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
In that case, I may be going somewhere, as I have been informed that it may be advisable to go to bed sometime earlier than 4:30 am when I have a nine o'clock class tomorrow. *grin*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 05:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almostinstinct.livejournal.com



Don't say I never did nuthin' for ya.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 06:14 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
TEN MILLION YEARS OF LOVE. (With bonus Pevensie awesomeness!) For that, I will happily write you fic. What would you like?

Okay...hmm, the question is whether those outlying bits of land are islands or part of the mainland? And I'm going to have to rewatch parts of LWW again. That'll be a hardness. All that forest is going to be gone by LB. *thoughtful* I mean, it wasn't there in LWW, period, grew up during the intervening thousand years, was chopped down by the Telmarines during the second Telmarine age, and then the Calormenes went on a wood-cutting spree throughout Narnia, so --

Um, I think too much. But seriously. TEN MILLION YEARS OF LOVE.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 06:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almostinstinct.livejournal.com
I'm gonna go collapse now. Uh, you know, write whatever you want, and if Susan/Peter happens to make it's way into the story, that would be awesome! *is vague and OTPish*

*smish*

Oidhche mhath!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 09:45 am (UTC)
ext_42328: Language is my playground (Default)
From: [identity profile] ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com
wait, the river WAS in NZ?

Please tell me it wasn't the same damn river they used for Arwen's ford. It looked so incredibly similar when Caspian was fleeing across it...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] burntcopper.livejournal.com
It's at times like this you almost wish the filmmakers hadn't skipped the bit between them getting the stuff from Cair Paravel and getting Trumpkin, so we'd actually know. I still have utterly no idea whether the newly built Cair Paravel is on the same spot in my 'they stayed' universe. (it's not mentioned in nano, I just know it's rebuilt by the time of VotD and Eustace is sitting there going 'What is with all the Spanish people?')

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 01:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] burntcopper.livejournal.com
probably was. it's like Durham Cathedral, the bodleian, and Alnwick Castle - also that village near Bristol which is used as *the* period location due to them banning anything post-1850 (you have to keep it hidden) precisely so they can fleece the tv and film companies. THere are only so many locations.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caramelsilver.livejournal.com
May I just say that for some reason the thought of Peter and Edmund in coats makes me all squeeful? I have no idea why. (Actually yes I do. Coats are hot!)
And again I admire your awesome research powers, which is probably why your fics are so good.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:53 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
*grumbles* God damn historical accuracy for a made-up country...at least the research involves me looking at pretty pictures. *sigh*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 04:55 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Actually, according to IMDB, it looks like it actually WASN'T. Who saw that coming? I didn't.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 05:00 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
And one just knows this isn't the sort of thing that the filmmakers were thinking about while actually filming. *sigh* Which leaves us to logicking it out, since heaven knows Lewis didn't actually make any sense. The kings of Narnia who sit on the throne of the High King Peter indeed. You mean the destroyed throne?

I suppose the question comes down to whether or not Caspian would have built on the ruins of Cair Paravel. And it's an island, so that seems fairly inconvenient. And my Old Cair Paravel is well and truly haunted, so I know that New Cair Paravel is on the mainland, I just need to figure out where on the mainland. *sigh* I'm certain they didn't think about this when they were actually filming, so I'll check out LWW again too, even though we know extremely well that the land changed in the intervening time.

(Really, this isn't as big a deal as I'm making it out to be, I'm just vaguely psychotic. And wishing I could draw/design as well as I write.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katakokk.livejournal.com
It makes a lot of sense to me to put NEW Cair Paravel on the headland by the Great River. I think it would make sense that Caspian would leave the island as some kinda national monument (again, like the Statue of Liberty) to the Pevensies & the Golden Age.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] burntcopper.livejournal.com
it's times like this you must admit defeat and go all merlin.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 07:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] burntcopper.livejournal.com
pick a good location on the nearest lookout point? There's got to be a hill nearby, considering you have got a bit of river valley - from the film, Cair Paravel was on a cliff and the land went back down to the river behind it. Land go up, land go down. :fudges:

thrones... are more the *idea* of thrones. The closest thing anyone ever had to one of those is the Stone of Scone. otherwise the throne was whatever impressive chair was deemed suitable for the purpose, stone or not. They got re-carved pretty often as it was. It's like crowns - they get reforged and added to as the years go by, but technically they're the same crown. The current queen's looks *nothing* like it did a couple of centuries ago, even though it's got some of the same bits in it.

:muses: actually the throne thing is something Tolkein had - and they did hang out together. considering tolkein was to blame for one of the *worst* myths about the line of royalty to ever get perpetuated - that you still had any claim whatsoever to the throne more than two generations after your family got kicked off it and you had no political or military power, it's not surprising. He with the most power has the right to be king. The average pig-keeper probably has more 'royal blood' than Aragorn ever did, considering the propensity of royalty to shag the maids and then boot them out of the castle with a nice stipend if they were lucky.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 08:05 pm (UTC)
ext_57392: (Default)
From: [identity profile] 1aquaesulis76.livejournal.com
Tristan's clothes - are pretty much a mish-mash. The open shire collar is definitely modern, while the breeches inside boots is late Georgian/Regency. The cut of the coat could be any time from late Georgian to early Victorian. Basically, pick what you like and build your own!

John Peacock's book 'Costume 1066 - 1990s' is my usual reference:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Costume-1066-1990s-Complete-English-History/dp/0500277915/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228161701&sr=1-4

and then there's this one I want to get (it's in colour!)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chronicle-Western-Costume-Ancient-Twentieth/dp/0500511519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228161701&sr=1-1

If I could work out how to scan using my brand new printer... give me a few weeks & I should get there!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 09:09 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Well, here's (http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/bedlamsbard/narnia/?action=view&current=easternseaboard.jpg) the eastern seaboard in the Golden Age. And from PC -- SINCE I HAVE IT NOW OHMYGOD I will go through and cap what I can find of the eastern seaboard, because I want to figure this out. Anyway, it looks like there's a headland somewhere, and I require a cliff, a beach, a harbor, and nearness to Old Cair Paravel for New Cair Paravel, a.k.a. the Narnian New Orleans: full of organized crime, brothels, drugs, smuggling, and Calormenes. (I...yeah. No. Look, I have a list of things that are going in Dust, and all those are on that list. Except also on that list happens to be a little thing called "antique dealers", which is how the rebel Narnians are going to make some friggin' money. After all, there's a whole treasury sitting in Arn Abedin, untouched for sixteen hundred years...)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 09:09 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Which I think is what's going to happen. The main thing is that I want the actual castle to be on a cliff, because I have this plan that involves falling and rock-climbing. (The two are unrelated, by the way.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katakokk.livejournal.com
Hahaha, well, I'm sure that when the Golden Age Cair Paravel seperated from the mainland and became an island, it created a cliff. 'Cause, well, in the movie, the castle remains are distinctly higher than the beach. That's going by the movieverse of PC, o' course.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 10:19 pm (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
There are cliffs in the area, I am relatively certain. I mean, I'm going to be doing some pretty intense screencap analysis of both movies to see if I can find a suitable point on the mainland for New Cair Paravel -- the nameless island, Old Cair Paravel, is pretty much just a monument, only a haunted one that no one likes to go to. (There are fun facts coming up in Dust. They shall be awesome. In which we find out that the troop of Calormene soldiers stationed on that island were all mysteriously found DEAD shortly after the Pevensies arrived in Narnia -- all the blood drained from their bodies, but literally scared to death. Do NOT piss off Golden Age Narnian ghosts.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 11:56 pm (UTC)
ext_42328: Language is my playground (Default)
From: [identity profile] ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com
Snort. Well done to them for finding scenery which looks eerily the same, then.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-02 12:20 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
No, damnit! I will persevere! I will make things up, but I will persevere!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-02 12:21 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Hell, I'm always shocked they managed to make New Zealand and Eastern Europe look like two parts of the sae country.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-02 12:23 am (UTC)
ext_42328: Language is my playground (Default)
From: [identity profile] ineptshieldmaid.livejournal.com
I'm impressed that they managed to make both look like Middle Earth... more so in PC, but that was probably helped by Nine Black Riders Chasing A Fugitive Across The Plain. What WERE you thinking, Andrew Adamson?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-02 12:27 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
*laughs* Hell, they got Weta to do everything for Narnia, so...

What gets me is that there's a scene in The Last Samurai that you can totally tell is filmed in the same place as a scene in RotK. It's like, wait, aren't the Rohirrim supposed to be here, not the samurai?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-03 05:11 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
And! There is now fic (http://bedlamsbard.livejournal.com/340263.html). Because you are AWESOME.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-03 05:30 am (UTC)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
From: [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com
Mish-mash. Of course. Right, fantasy, doesn't have to be accurate necessarily. *beats head into desk*

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bedlamsbard: natasha romanoff from the black widow prelude comic (Default)
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