*stares*

[bedlamsbard]

That's it, as soon as finals are over (and I have five days between my last final and the day I fly home), I'm doing my own map of Narnia. I have graph paper specifically for this purpose.

If it's not one thing, it's ten other ones.

Now it's the friggin' Narnian road system, designed and built during the Golden Age by Edmund and Peter, more or less unused, abandoned, and overgrown by the Telmarine era, and rebuilt during the Second Telmarine Age by Absalian the Blind, who used some of the maps remaining from the Golden Age. The lionsroad and the roseroad are mentioned in both Dust and some of my Golden Age fics; there's at least one more that hasn't been named yet.

Okay, we do not have to go into this much detail in Dust. Hello, babygirl, we don't need the intimate details of the Narnian road system, past and present.

Comments

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

How sophisticated a road system do you think they had? Something like the old Roman roads? Or just a few paved roads leading to Cair Paravel-maybe 4, one from each cardinal direction?

Maybe you don't need to know this stuff *now*, but you WILL, eventually. You'll end up writing something that has them pelting down the starsroad or whatever. And we need to know what direction that is! *laughs*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Well, it was sophisticated enough that the remains of it are still around sixteen hundred years later, but I don't know all that much about roads. *sigh* God, more research...

I know the lionsroad is the only road that leads directly to Cair Paravel, and I think that it may run from Anvard to Cair Paravel. The roseroad leads out of Telmar and joins up with the lionsroad outside the western woods. Which means there's probably a couple smaller roads coming out of the west, and one bigger one coming down from the north. *scowls*

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

What you name them would depend, I think, on major landmarks that they pass by; or on things that are important to Narnia. The lionsroad is obvious; the rose road sounds romantic. :)

What would be important enough to Narnians to name imperial highways for? I thought "starsroad", because the stars would be used to travel by-so maybe a road in a high place, like the mountains, or on the plains, where you'd get a big, sweeping look at the night sky. Would you count the Beruna river as a highway, given how important the navy is to Narnia? It would be important to trade and defense both, so "riverroad".

I think the Roman system would be a good one to base Narnia's on, since the Pevensies would be familiar with that, and it was very efficient. Would you have aquiducts? Or would that leave your water system too vulnerable? *is nosy*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

The roseroad passes through Telmar, or did at one point, and at some point in the far-distant past Telmar's symbol included three roses. It also passes through the rosewood, which is the southernmost of Narnia's western woods. Go north a few leagues and the rosewood turns into the wolfswood, then we get Lantern Waste, and above that on the northern border are the High Reaches.

*considers* Perhaps the lionsroad follows the Great River, since that covers most of Narnia. Starsroad makes sense if it comes down out of the mountains in the north. *muses*

I would have to do research on the subject. *sigh*

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I doubt you'll need that much detail. Good names and a brief mention of where they go, possibly why they go there...that'll do.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

If it comes up, it'll come up. I just almost went talkyface exposition again. *wince*

No, Peter, really, "We built them," pretty much covers it. You don't have to give the whole damned history.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

"The dwarves helped" might add luster, but yeah. Nobody would care...I can just see Caspian's eyes glazing over *even more*. :)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Tirian, at this point. Also Eustace, but Peter's mostly talking to Tirian here.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Even worse!

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

The bad thing is that Tirian would probably be fascinated. Well, by the history part, at least. Bookworm. *bemused*

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

geeeeeeeez. the lewis estate should like hire you to write the expanded encyclopedia or something. replete with diagrams of the sewer system, and the chief imports and export of outlying provinces. hmm. and a couple maps of the constellations (a summer one, a winter one), for seafaring adventures. what else? paper dolls of susan and her dresses. YES. i want it for christmas.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD you had to mention the sewer system i hate you so much right now.

because the telmarines would do that to the city of cair paravel, and that means that i have a second way to get people behind the walls and into the city and...

*beats head into desk* you just HAD to do that, didn't you. *goes to put it on list of things to put into dust*

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

talking about poop, it is what i love to do.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

seriously, i am just using narnia as an excuse to go crazy with the faux-medieval world-building.

[lassiterfics.livejournal.com]

i think at this point i am using other things as an excuse to go crazy with narnia

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

hey, i would rather do faux-medieval world-building in narnia than my twenty years of u.s. history and politics that i made up for my sci-fi novel. *winces* wherein i realized it was a message novel, and i was frustrated with the state of the real world, so i was channeling it into the u.s. war with another galaxy. *sigh*

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Worrying about the sewer system is a *very* valid concern, especially in a country where people live in the water. *scrunchy face*


I can't see how Cair Paravel could be their only palace. Most royal courts move several times a year, and it's in part to have the privies cleaned out (as well as restock the local game, and form ties of loyalty to other areas,etc). Even if the Pevensiesd don't have a large court, they have one-and visitors/ambassadors/traders,etc. A city around them, all feeding into the same system...! Poor, poor naiads...Perhaps there's a Narnian equivalent of those things you put in aquariums that eat the scum off the glass.

Also? A Narnian paint-by-numbers set would make a very good Christmas gift.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's not Golden Age Cair Paravel I'm thinking about here, it's Calormene-controlled Cair Paravel in Dust. Which at this point refers to both the city and the castle.

Not that there was only one castle in the Golden Age, period, I mean. Cair Paravel in the east, Arn Abedin in the west...there may have been one in the north as well, and there was possibly a manor in the south, although Cair Paravel's close enough to the south that it seems unlikely. But especially after Narnia started getting lots of refugees, especially a few noble refugees, then they got their own lands (sort of. Narnia is weird like that. There are considerations involved that wouldn't occur in other kingdoms).

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Still holds true-you can't have just *one* major residence for royalty with a court. Not to mention all those armsmen in the barracks! Horses and the livestock that would be brought into town for food, etc. NASTY!

Plus, good sewer systems help prevent epidemics. With all those people coming in from other countries, and no way to innoculate them (?), they'd have to be on guard for disease. :)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, I have already gone back and forth on whether or not to put the plague or some other kind of disease in Dust. I mean, I think I probably won't just because they already have about a million other problems, but I have thought about it. *stares blindly into space* Let us not even think about how fucked up Arn Abedin is going to be, considering the fact that pretty much the entirety of free Narnia is moving into the rosewood -- and that's a couple of thousand people in a relatively small space.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

You said Tirian's a bookworm, right? If he has any interest in history, and a scholarly bent, *plus* a sense of responsibility, he'll have thought of that. I think adding in an epidemic would be over-kill, yes. I'm not clear on your details, but...if the Narnian forces have moved into an old camp, then the latrine system would be already laid out, to a degree; if it's a new camp, then Tirian could lay down the law about not *caring* if X group likes A group, they're gonna piss next to each other, regardless, and if they give him too much more lip, they'll be digging the next row of latrines. *coughs*

I think it's something that both Peter and Edmund would appreciate, him having the good sense to have already dealt with the issue. They've spent enough time on campaign that they'd *know* how dangerous it is to pack all those people in so closely-a good epidemic of dysentery and bam, there's your forces down. Napolean's march on Russia ring any bells? Make 'em wash, too, bedlam, and delouse their hair and blankets because lice & fleas=bad news for soldiers and other people in close quarters! *is helpful*


*grins*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I refuse to go into that much detail. *whimpers* Seriously, between plotting out the battles, the emotional plot, and the political machinations, I have more than enough on my mind.

(Oh my god, I have to bring in the political machinations soon. Excuse me, it is the political machinations to the nth degree -- there's Archenland, and then there's the rebels that have fled to the north, and then there is the Black Fleet, and then there is Cair Paravel's thriving criminal underground and I really need to figure out an excuse to get the brothels involved, because, well, I am me, and I live for freaking out my characters, and then there's Calormene itself...)

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Surely, Edmund would have had connections in the brothels, during the Golden Age? I think he'd be the one tap for that and the crimnial underground thing, because even if things have changed over time, he'd still likely have more experience than anyone else. Cathouses made good places to hole up and hide, and great sources of information. The criminal underground might have a few surviving legends about the King of Shadows, who once walked among them and swore brotherhood to X, the King of Thieves (or something! *laughs*)

So he'd have more of an in with them.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Edmund probably would have been a wiser choice to do this particular sort of reconnaissance, which he was more than happy to point out to Peter, but Peter puts his foot down: he's going.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

That doesn't mean Peter will win, you know. His family's had decades of him "putting his foot down" and doing stuff anyways. *is amused*


Seriousy, though, if Peter is going to be STUPID and go himself, despite admitting he's not best choice, there had best be some kind of display of protective brother!love there, to justify it (like the heart-wrenching scene when you SHOT Edmund). I think that's the one thing that might make Edmund concede, is Peter making it clear that if he went, it would worry him to much.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Peter also points out the fact that Edmund hasn't had any experience with urban recon for the better part of a decade now, and that Edmund's more valuable back at Arn Abedin, Narnian-wrangling. And we may not see that; we're in a Tirian POV now. May come up when I go back to Edmund and Peter. *thoughtful*

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Peter's been a *pilot*, right? That's not useful in Narnian urban recon, and at least Edmund's got some memory and reputation to go on, here! The High King would be pretty damn useful in Narnian-wrangling back at whatsis, too.

As long as I get me some protective brother!love, FINE. *sulks*

This is why the omniscient pov is my favorite-it's not as immediate in feeling, perhaps, but you get to know what everyone's thinking.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Peter's been a pilot in two (possibly three, probably not) different warzones, and he's been in the military for the past six years. Edmund's been a schoolboy until the past year, where he was wandering around in the jungle with the Army. And Peter's got a Plan, a plan that probably can't be pulled off by anyone but the High King, and hell if he's going to let anyone else head off into the mouth of hell.

And he needs to see Narnia. He needs to see the ground he's fighting on, he needs to see what he's fighting for; he can't be in the position he was in in PC; he needs to know the country.

This would probably not be the time to point out that I hate omniscient POV with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns. Give me a tight third limited any time.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Still, PILOT. Aerial reconaissance, yes. Stick him on the back of a Talking Eagle or something, I can see it. Six years? I know you said he tried to sneak off and join up, but he was stopped, you said. *frowns* He's only about four years older than Edmund, so if he's been in the military for six years, then Edmund should have been in for...two. I think. :)

I hardly think Edmund was "wandering around in the jungle with the Army" for a year. *eyes you*

The need to see Narnia to lay out battle plans, I can agree with, plus the reluctance to send anyone else off on a hellish mission in his place (especially a sibling). I would respect that more, if Peter simply *said*, I'm not letting anyone get killed or captured in my place, etc, without trying to posit that nobody else is *capable* of doing the job. That's where the disgruntlement comes in, see, not that anyone else should do it, but that others *could* do it. He shouldn't run down their ability; he should say that *he* needs to do it. It's not a lack in Edmund or anyone else, it's one of his own OCD quirks, if you see the difference.

I like omniscient and third; I even like first, if it's done well and not sounding Mary Sueish. You get more knowledge with the omniscient, but more emotional impact with the latter two.


Just give me fiercely protective big brother/little brother interaction, please, and I'll find some way to deal with it. *laughs*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*gnaws lip* He joined up when he was seventeen (in VotDT; my theory is the "test" he's studying for at the professor's is for pilot training), he's twenty-three now, Edmund's five years younger and...crap, there go my dates again, messing me up. *throws up hands* GOD DAMN IT LEWIS. Edmund is 19/20 and was with the Army in Malaya for at least a few months before he got shot and shipped back to England. Peter's unit was in Malaya at the same time and got rotated back at around the same time. (This is about, oh, four to six months before LB/Dust.)

The main thing that Peter's doing is putting out feelers for who's going to help them win the war. They don't have enough people to win a straight-up fight, and it's a completely different situation than what they had in LWW or PC; it's more complicated to the nth degree. They need every ally they can get, Narnian or otherwise. (And we'll see foreign complications later, oh joy. Archenland, anyone?) And the way Peter puts it: he's doing it. No one's as immediately recognizable in Narnia as the High King; Edmund doesn't have anything as distinguishing as, say, Rhindon, which at this point in time is considered to be untouchable by anyone except the High King. He needs to make connections that it would be considerably harder, if not impossible, for any of the other Pevensies to make. Susan or Lucy might be able to pull it off, if only because they've also got artifacts associated with them, but Edmund doesn't.

Also, Peter is OCD and crazy like that.

And the others are a hell of a lot better at Narnian-wrangling than Peter is; he doesn't have the patience to deal with this much internal quarreling.

There will be fiercely protective siblings later, I'm sure! Not sure when, but we'll be getting it at some juncture.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Edmund's got ambiguity on his side, though. Who the hell knows what kind of rumors or reputation, what legends, might have attached to his name over the millenium? He's not only the Spy King, but he's got that tie to the Witch, however he hates it and however much he dosn't want it...the dark Narnians would probably pay attention to him and give his words weight, instead of just dismissing them outright. I think he'd be a good distraction for *any* of the Narnian camps-whether they follow him or not, they'd want to know what the hell he was up to and quarrel about it, etc.

I wonder about the artifacts, though. The Stone Knife is obviously a relic of when Aslan was killed and returned to life...but it also almost killed Edmund. When you see it, the two things are entertwined. What if Ramandu's daughter brought it with her to Narnia and it was a relic of Caspian's line? Whether or not it's magical, as in doing something on its own; or just a symbol...I can see it falling into Edmund's hands. He'd hate it.

I read this book once, can't remember the name, where this big, sprawling city had a magic knife that chose its bearers; and whoever was chosen became the protector of the city, and these over-sized golden cats acted as his helpers (not talking, just big and smart). If he tried to throw the knife away, if would mysteriously reapper. You couldn't discrd it, you bore it to your death and it would chose another. Damn, I wish I could remember the name of the book!


Peter's good at Narnian-wrangling in his way. He gets them to MOVE, right? *laughs* It just depends on what all you want them to do!

You know, since they're so tribal and speciest, *I* would have forced intermarriages, just to form more alliances and blood-ties among the folk. If everyone has relatives in the "enemy" camp, whatever the enemy is, then it might slow down some of the nonsense. Maybe!

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

*snaps fingers* I dropped Lucy's dates instead of Edmund's; Edmund's three years younger than Peter and twenty in Dust.

Hell, at this point we're lucky if anyone outside of the nobles and the educated remember that the Pevensies have names. The King of Evening is the patron saint of assassins and spies and thieves, said to watch over work done in the dark and behind the back... And the others have their legends too.

The one good thing about the intervening years is that there is not really a demarcation point between good Narnians and bad Narnians anymore, just the ones that are loyal to Narnia and the ones that have gone over to the Calormenes.

At this point, it's all playing politics and waiting to see who shows up. Peter hates politics and hates waiting, so. *shrugs*