a philosophical question
Nov. 2nd, 2005 08:17 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bedlamsbardQuestion: Do you believe in fate?
Question: Do you believe in free will?
Question: Do you believe that the two contradict each other?
I was thinking about this last night, and I came to the conclusions of yes, yes, and no.
See, I believe that fate and free will act hand in hand. Fate will present you with the opportunities, but it's up to you to take them. For example:
You take the bus everyday. One day, you're running late, and you miss your bus. So you wait for the next bus to come. When it does, you get on and find that there's only one open seat, next to this really hot guy/girl. Now, if you sit down and talk to him/her, you find out that maybe you're perfect for each other. You start going out eventually, and you get married, or whatever, and everything ends happy ever after. Now. Do you consider this fate? I would, yes. Now, the free will part comes in here: you didn't have to wait for the next bus to come. You could have walked, or taken a taxi. You could have offered the seat to the person behind you, or just chose to stand. You never had to talk to the guy/girl. That's where the free will comes in. Fate will provide you with the opportunities, but it's up to you to take them.
Now, here's my other example, and I'm kind of reticent about this one, since it's downright tacky to use your own life, but I think it works...maybe...
See, in eighth grade, I made the decision to challenge freshman science. I did, and in late August I took the test to get into Biology. I did in fact make it into bio (a sophomore class) and the counselors slotted me into fourth period bio. Now, in that bio class was a certain someone - yeah, you guessed it, Joey. But see, I didn't notice him for a couple months. Up until then, I was hung up on another guy, who ended up going out with my friend Katie. When I finally did notice him, it was because he walked into class wearing his letterman's jacket. Now, I'm not going to say it was infatuation at first sight, because obviously I'd seen him before - during marching band for two years, and during pep, but I'd never really noticed him - but that was the first moment I ever really saw him, and that was the moment I went, "Wow. Thomas, screw you, you're gone." That was over a year ago. Now, eventually scheduling for the next year rolled around. I meant to take chemistry, only with the way my schedule was going, the only advanced science class I could get into was second period physics. Well, it turned out Joey was in the same class. Eventually, second period joined up with third period. the day I walked into class, there was only one seat open, and that was the seat in the back next to Joey. The rest, as they say, is fate. We talked - still do, actually, and I consider him a friend - and eventually I asked him to Tolo.
Now, the thing is that to some people, this entire thing may sound like fate. To others, it's all free will. But it's both. Now, I'm not saying Joey and I are fated to end up together, because that's just silly. What I'm saying is that there's a lot of stuff going on in everyday life that's wholly out of any one person's control. I made the decision to challenge freshman science. That's free will. I passed the test. Now, you could make the argument that that could be either free will or fate, but when it comes down to it, I did pass the test. Now, the counselors put me in fourth period bio. This has nothing to do with my decision - they could very easily have put me in a different class. The only thing was, was that Arlt's fourth period was the only one that could potentially fit another student. Fate? Maybe. Now, the physics thing? I had no choice in that matter. There very literally was no other advanced science class I could take. Why did Joey take that class? I don't know. The thing is, his friends were in the third period physics class. He knew that, and he made a decision to take second period physics. Now, eventually we both ended up in third period. When I walked into class, I stopped to talk to my friend Mindy, who was sitting in the front of the room. No open seats there, which distressed me. In the back, Joey was sitting next to Ellen, another junior, but moved when a couple seniors came in, looking distressed. He sat next to Kyle. I eventually wandered to the back of the room and the one open seat - next to Joey.
Fate? Free will? Or a combination of both? In that scenario, free will put everything in play, but after that some other power took charge. Maybe you'd prefer to call it chance rather than fate. That works too. I'm just saying, there's stuff that happens because you make it happen - and then there's the stuff that happens all on its own, the stuff you got no control over. Maybe it happens because of what you did, or maybe what you did happened because of fate, or chance, or predestination, or whatever you want to call it. When it comes down to it, it did happen.
And yes, I know that was darn tacky, but it was something I knew about.
I asked my friends about this, and got mixed answers. Some people believed in one or the other, and some people believed in both, and some believed that fate doesn't interfere in individual peoples' lives, but in the big events. Maybe World War II was fated to end with the Allies winning. She believed so. But she doesn't believe that fate will affect something as ordinary as a single person's love life.
Discuss?
Question: Do you believe in free will?
Question: Do you believe that the two contradict each other?
I was thinking about this last night, and I came to the conclusions of yes, yes, and no.
See, I believe that fate and free will act hand in hand. Fate will present you with the opportunities, but it's up to you to take them. For example:
You take the bus everyday. One day, you're running late, and you miss your bus. So you wait for the next bus to come. When it does, you get on and find that there's only one open seat, next to this really hot guy/girl. Now, if you sit down and talk to him/her, you find out that maybe you're perfect for each other. You start going out eventually, and you get married, or whatever, and everything ends happy ever after. Now. Do you consider this fate? I would, yes. Now, the free will part comes in here: you didn't have to wait for the next bus to come. You could have walked, or taken a taxi. You could have offered the seat to the person behind you, or just chose to stand. You never had to talk to the guy/girl. That's where the free will comes in. Fate will provide you with the opportunities, but it's up to you to take them.
Now, here's my other example, and I'm kind of reticent about this one, since it's downright tacky to use your own life, but I think it works...maybe...
See, in eighth grade, I made the decision to challenge freshman science. I did, and in late August I took the test to get into Biology. I did in fact make it into bio (a sophomore class) and the counselors slotted me into fourth period bio. Now, in that bio class was a certain someone - yeah, you guessed it, Joey. But see, I didn't notice him for a couple months. Up until then, I was hung up on another guy, who ended up going out with my friend Katie. When I finally did notice him, it was because he walked into class wearing his letterman's jacket. Now, I'm not going to say it was infatuation at first sight, because obviously I'd seen him before - during marching band for two years, and during pep, but I'd never really noticed him - but that was the first moment I ever really saw him, and that was the moment I went, "Wow. Thomas, screw you, you're gone." That was over a year ago. Now, eventually scheduling for the next year rolled around. I meant to take chemistry, only with the way my schedule was going, the only advanced science class I could get into was second period physics. Well, it turned out Joey was in the same class. Eventually, second period joined up with third period. the day I walked into class, there was only one seat open, and that was the seat in the back next to Joey. The rest, as they say, is fate. We talked - still do, actually, and I consider him a friend - and eventually I asked him to Tolo.
Now, the thing is that to some people, this entire thing may sound like fate. To others, it's all free will. But it's both. Now, I'm not saying Joey and I are fated to end up together, because that's just silly. What I'm saying is that there's a lot of stuff going on in everyday life that's wholly out of any one person's control. I made the decision to challenge freshman science. That's free will. I passed the test. Now, you could make the argument that that could be either free will or fate, but when it comes down to it, I did pass the test. Now, the counselors put me in fourth period bio. This has nothing to do with my decision - they could very easily have put me in a different class. The only thing was, was that Arlt's fourth period was the only one that could potentially fit another student. Fate? Maybe. Now, the physics thing? I had no choice in that matter. There very literally was no other advanced science class I could take. Why did Joey take that class? I don't know. The thing is, his friends were in the third period physics class. He knew that, and he made a decision to take second period physics. Now, eventually we both ended up in third period. When I walked into class, I stopped to talk to my friend Mindy, who was sitting in the front of the room. No open seats there, which distressed me. In the back, Joey was sitting next to Ellen, another junior, but moved when a couple seniors came in, looking distressed. He sat next to Kyle. I eventually wandered to the back of the room and the one open seat - next to Joey.
Fate? Free will? Or a combination of both? In that scenario, free will put everything in play, but after that some other power took charge. Maybe you'd prefer to call it chance rather than fate. That works too. I'm just saying, there's stuff that happens because you make it happen - and then there's the stuff that happens all on its own, the stuff you got no control over. Maybe it happens because of what you did, or maybe what you did happened because of fate, or chance, or predestination, or whatever you want to call it. When it comes down to it, it did happen.
And yes, I know that was darn tacky, but it was something I knew about.
I asked my friends about this, and got mixed answers. Some people believed in one or the other, and some people believed in both, and some believed that fate doesn't interfere in individual peoples' lives, but in the big events. Maybe World War II was fated to end with the Allies winning. She believed so. But she doesn't believe that fate will affect something as ordinary as a single person's love life.
Discuss?