ARGH

[bedlamsbard]

So far I have been liberal with the lip balm and I have not cried in Professor K's office. On the other hand, the meeting got cut short, so it was probably a near thing. I went to him with a list (Birmingham, Bristol, Durham, British Columbia, Sydney, Berkeley -- you will note this covers four different countries) and he told me to look at Leicester and Victoria. We've progressed: at least he's not telling me to get an MA in English anymore; now he's pushing me towards classical archaeology, which, okay, I did a month of ALL ARCHAEOLOGY ALL THE TIME and I did not hate it. On the other hand, he still thinks that I don't care about the languages, which is NOT TRUE, and I don't think he believes me when I tell him that.

Later this afternoon, Professor B and history grad. *sighs* I am reasonably hopeful that he won't say anything to make me cry. On the other hand, WHO KNOWS? with my track record.

*eyes Leicester* I am initially a little put off with it since it doesn't have a classics department; ancient history is grouped in with archaeology. But, okay, it has Archaeology of the Roman World, which is a thing in which I am interested, and apparently David Mattingley is really good, so it bears more looking at. Also, apparently Leicester is really well known for its Asian food. Wait, now that I am on the actual program's website, it's looking better and better. Of course, it would be lovely if they had a section on their website that talked about applying. (...found it. It's in a PDF, which is irritating, since I am of the general opinion that that should be a thing which is right there on the webpage.) OH MY GOD ROMAN MILITARY HISTORY PROFESSOR. That is the first one I have found ANYWHERE. He is currently on leave, but he'd be back by fall 2012. Jesus, why do I keep coming back to Sydney (different professor)? Excuse me, I am applying JUST FOR THE ROMAN MILITARY GUY.

Okay, Victoria. Which is at least a city I've been to and which is easy to get to from my hometown, even if it is in Canada. And they call it Greek and Roman Studies, and they have the usual stringent language requirements, so THERE GOES THAT. And their history department does not look promising. *strikes that from the list* This is just too depressing for words.

Also, I keep getting the vibe that Professor K does not actually believe I can get into a graduate program in classics, since he keeps telling me kindly that I can always take a year off and take classes at the University of Washington before applying again next year. I don't think he realizes how depressing that is. I feel like I'm having this ongoing debate with the Classics department at Tulane about whether or not I really actually care about classics or if I just got interested in it because I took one good class with one professor. I've been having this debate for two years now. It's why I have more classes in MEMS than I do in Classics -- I get really into classics, the department tells me that I'll never be any good at it so I should just stop now, so then I take a bunch of MEMS classes because I'm mad at the classics department, but I still take one or two classics classes because I fucking love classics, okay? And then I forget that I'm mad at them and I go to the department again and they tell me the same thing and it STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN. And it's been going on for the better part of two years now. I get such mixed signals from the department that I never know what to do with myself -- I have the professors that say, "Sure, you have the background, you can get into graduate school/4+1/etc.," and the professors that say, "With your background you'll never cut it. Do something else." Over and over and over again.

I don't know, maybe I am deluding myself. Maybe I really don't have the background and I'm never going to be able to get it. Maybe I'm just too dumb to get the message.

I don't even have a really good list of possible schools for when I go and talk to Professor B, because I'm not even sure if I'd prefer to do medieval or early modern and in which part of Europe. It's, like, the schools I sent my GRE scores to that I don't think I can get into for classics/ancient history.

Anyway. I am a little frustrated. Also because the fire alarm keeps starting and stopping and I don't know whether to leave the apartment or not.

Comments

[starlady]

This seems to be a thing with classics departments. Mine was not supportive of me continuing on in classics either (they wouldn't even consider me doing an honors thesis). They seem to have something of a star system going on, which doesn't necessarily mean that the actual best minds are continuing in the field, just the people with the most preparation.

[bedlamsbard]

Yeah, I'm getting the impression that classics departments are -- a little elitist, maybe. I'm just getting such mixed signals from my department that I don't even know, man -- I've had two profs tell me that I'm fine, and three profs tell me I'm not (including the chair, Professor K, and the prof last semester who told me that if I didn't take Greek that summer then I wouldn't get tenure). *shakes head* Classics, man.

[starlady]

the prof last semester who told me that if I didn't take Greek that summer then I wouldn't get tenure

BWAHAHAHA SERIOUSLY?! oh man, what is that professor smoking, it's got to be pretty good. Because that of all things is what…I just…bwahahaha, no.

[bedlamsbard]

THIS IS WHY I SIDEEYE MY DEPARTMENT SO HARD.

She'd just gotten tenure the semester before, so I guess it was on her mind? But that was what flipped me over from choosing between taking Greek classes or going to Cambridge this past summer, because I couldn't take that seriously, so I went to Cambridge.

(She actually said, mmm, something about how you had to start your languages early, because you couldn't do original research if you didn't have the languages down, and if you couldn't do original research you couldn't publish, and if you couldn't publish, you couldn't get tenure. I did not say, "Professor, I'm a junior in college, I don't even have a bachelor's degree yet, I don't think I have to worry about NOT GETTING FREAKING TENURE YET.")

[snacky]

I agree that it seems like the classics department is just fucking around with you, especially since, as you've said in the past, they don't make their requirements very clear.

But (and I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, I'm honestly asking), would taking the year off and taking classes at UW be a really bad idea? I cannot speak with any knowledge of classics departments, but the PhD program I used to work for (humanities, not classics) looked very favorably on applicants who did that kind of thing, to prepare for applying to our program. It just seems like if the classes will help you get into the program of your choice, it might not be such a bad option.

And from another perspective, I think it might not hurt you to take a year to figure out where you want to be while you are taking these classes. I know you're very anxious and stressed and unhappy at Tulane, and it might not be the best position to make that decision from. A year at home, taking classes and taking time to consider what program will be the best fit for you, might help a lot.

[bedlamsbard]

I am glad it seems like it's not just my paranoia, at this point.

The thing is that if I take a year off and take classes at the UW, I won't be at home -- I'm going to have to up and move entirely, to a city I'm not very fond of, and be completely on my own without anything remotely resembling structure, which just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me. So I might as well go anywhere in the country to do that, and if I'm going somewhere to take a year, I might as well do an MA and at least get a degree out of it. (I'm not from Seattle, and I'm not close enough to the city to make commuting a reasonable option, especially when you consider that I really, really hate driving and also...I live on the other side of a mountain range from Seattle. Also, I am less than fond of Seattle, so the idea of living there without actually getting something out of it is not something I'm that happy with. I mean, yes, I am applying to the UW for grad! But then at least I'd get a degree.) I feel like if I'm going to have to move cities just in order to take a year off, it kind of defeats the point, although my mother pointed out that I could stay home and take courses at CWU (the university in my hometown), but they wouldn't be the ones I need in Latin or Greek -- it would be German or French, which would help, but. *hands*

Right now I'm looking primarily at MA programs, rather than MA programs that feed directly into the PhD or PhD programs, because it feels like less of a commitment and more like, mmm, I can shop around? And go somewhere Not Here for a year or two, and get the languages and a degree at the same time. (I am not sure this is the best logic, but it's what I got right now.)

I hope this perspective helps!

[cursor_mundi]

If you would like the perspective of a PhD candidate who took 3 years off before returning to the academy, it is this: regarding the "year off, take classes" option Professor K is pushing...it's actually very good advice for ANYONE. For an admissions committee, at least in English Lit., what this says is "I have drive and determination, and can fend for myself; I know what I want, how to prepare for it, and how to keep my hand in (even though I am, of course, perfect already for this program)." They do not see it as being ill prepared. If you do this while working, they respect it even more, because they are like, "wow, this candidate is pulling herself up by her bootstraps, and isn't just leaping into grad school to avoid thinking about the rest of her life -- she will actually finish our program and get a job in our field, thus spreading our name, awesomesauce. Also, maybe she will not starve to death because she has Real World Experience." (Never underestimate how appealing common sense is to academics.) You should, of course, also encourage this line of thought in your Statement of Purpose. ;)

So what I am saying is, even though Tulane are being a bunch of douchecanoes about properly preparing you (and I agree with you -- you should be very angry with them!), if you go out and arm yourself with things that make you seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread -- consider language immersion programs, say via Middlebury or abroad; there are Latin courses that do this, and I am certain the same must be true for classical Greek -- this actually looks better to some admissions committees than coming straight from undergraduate even if you were super-prepared by your program. I can tell you that, statistically, the candidates in my program who have flourished are the ones with work experience outside the academy, who took an MA before coming for a PhD, and who indicate an awareness of their own strengths and weaknesses. In my year cohort of 8, 3 did not have MAs and of those 3, 2 came straight from undergrad. One of those has dropped out; the other is doing well, and the 3rd, with no MA, took time off and came back super-dedicated. The rest of us took time, took an MA, and we are all on track.

Hope this helps!

Re: I hope this perspective helps!

[bedlamsbard]

Thank you for this!

The reason I am not really that keen on the idea of taking a year off just to take classes is because I'd have to pick up and move (and I elaborated on all the reasons why to snacky above; we can start with the fact I'm not that fond of Seattle); there's a university in my hometown, but it's not the kind of university that offers Latin or Greek classes, although I could start in on French and German. I just feel like if I'm going to have to pick up and move anyway, I should at least do it somewhere I can get a degree (or at least something interesting) out of it. Right now I'm mostly just looking at doing the MA somewhere and then figuring out if I want to do the PhD or if I want to take time off or what I actually want to study etc. Which is sort of why I want to do the MA not in the U.S., because it will be such a dramatic change of pace to what I'm doing now. If that makes sense?