differences between textual and visual

[bedlamsbard]

You ever have one of those moments when you really, really wish you were writing for the screen, not the...other screen? I'm having that right now, writing Schrodinger's Nightmare.

See, the season-long plot arc revolves around a mistaken identity. Specifically, Flack's. Now, I'm trying to set that up in SN, but I'm not entirely sure it's working. For one thing, I can't actually go out and say "Flack" or "Not-Flack" (okay, granted, it's a Flack from another universe, but still); I have to say "him" or "he." Which makes it pretty obvious that Something Is Up. Now, granted, I could leave out the scenes in question, although I do like them, and think they give away some cool hints, and hey, if this was a TV show or a movie, they would be shown. The thing is, text isn't visual, it's textual, so something that wouldn't necessarily work on screen works in text, and something that doesn't work on text works on screen. Including mistaken identities. A viewer -- especially one watching the pilot for the first time -- wouldn't be able to pick up the differences in a character shown for a few minutes in the first scene of the show and a character who's next seen in, basically, a dark cell trying to escape. A reader almost certainly could, because you've gotta tell the story from someone's POV and they're not going to be referring to themselves the same way.

Now, granted, with the characters in question, I could get around it, but I don't particularly want to use that particular loophole. That particular loophole in question being the name thing. Captain Flack refers to himself as "Flack" in the first scene. I could refer to other-Flack (just Flack, from here on out; he's a main character, not original Flack) as "Don" -- but it would feel off to me, as well as to the readers. As well as, you know, giving away plot points which are not supposed to be given away until a later date (ep 1.10, currently unnamed).

The main problem with this particular solution comes in with the fact that in most universes, Flack is Flack is Flack, be it Detective Flack, Captain Flack, or superhero Angel Flack. This specific Flack isn't one of those Flacks. This Flack doesn't have a name, he has a number: X6-697336635225 (make my day. Translate it into letters). So clearly, he wouldn't refer to himself as either "Don" or "Flack" -- at least, not until later. So a story or so later, I can get to a point where I can use Flack as a POV, because he'll refer to himself as Flack -- but right now, I can't.

Now, if we were watching this on the silver screen, it wouldn't be from any specific character's POV. We'd see the character, and probably be unable to tell Flack and original Flack apart. Same with the rest of the season. (Plus, you know, the action scenes would totally be cooler. But I digress.) There are differences, which should be picked up in the stories between 1.01 and 1.10. Well, differences in the sense that something's definitely off about that boy, because he don't act like a normal soldier. But most of the characters don't notice, because, with the exception of Stella, they didn't know original Flack all that well, and she's seeing him in such a different situation than she's used to that it's hard to compare (research assistant versus active combat mode). But we're trying to get a feel for this Flack, not the original Flack; we never see him again (well, he'd show up in season three if I wrote a season three, but I'm not, so). It's an attempt to set things up for the second season, where you'd see a completely different Flack (well, if you check out this, you'll see it's an amnesiac, "reprogrammed" Flack), but that's not all it is. It's simply about the character himself, the same way I'm trying to develope Danny, Mac, and Stella. They're not our Danny, Mac, Stella, and Flack -- they're Dr. Danny Messer, Colonel Mac Taylor, Major Doctor Stella Bonasera, and whateverthefuckheis fake-Captain Don Flack. Very different people, but very similar at the same time).

Thoughts are appreciated, if you feel so inclined.

Comments

[mentalhygiene.livejournal.com]

This Flack doesn't have a name, he has a number: X6-697336635225 (make my day. Translate it into letters).

Is it a straight alpha/numeral sequence -- a 1, b 2? Or more puzzling?

You could use Flack-with-number as a POV, because as a Self, he's going to give himself some way of referencing who he is. Even if he just shortens his number to 'sixer' or something. Right?

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

It's numbers to letters on a cell phone keypad. Not on a regular phone, on a cell, so it may not translate so well depending on the phone in question. On my cell, it should translate to "nypddonflack". Yes, I amuse myself.

You could use Flack-with-number as a POV, because as a Self, he's going to give himself some way of referencing who he is. Even if he just shortens his number to 'sixer' or something. Right?

Ah, but the point is the reader isn't supposed to know he's Flack-with-number until that pesky little DNA thing points it out. They're supposed to think he's the same old Flack shown in the first scene, while he's not. *sigh* I'm not sure how clear I'm being here. Right now I'm just trying to change everything into Danny's POV, so he's mostly just freaked out by the guy that just snapped creepy soldier's guy's neck through the bars of his cage.

[missmollyetc.livejournal.com]

Hi, I've been LJ surfing an your subject heading caught my eye. I hope you don't mind, and please feel free to disregard my comments if you find them an intrusion.

As a slash writer, I've done my time in pronoun hell, and fiddled around with AU/Original crossovers. You make an excellent point here, that a name truly is a highly specific and important touchstone for someone's personality, but wouldn't the necessity of differentiating between the two Flacks require one of them to submit to a name change. A part you mentioned:

Now, I'm trying to set that up in SN, but I'm not entirely sure it's working. For one thing, I can't actually go out and say "Flack" or "Not-Flack" (okay, granted, it's a Flack from another universe, but still); I have to say "him" or "he."

I know it sounds odd, but you can, actually, refer to 'Flack' and 'Non-Flack' depending on who's POV you're working from. I mean, in a textual situation the POV character will probably share the reader's confusion over which Flack is which and attempt to classify the other by something specific, a different haircut or attitude, even using 'Capatain' as you suggest, or Don. That way you can have the POV character come up with an alternative title in order to distinguish between 'his/her' Flack and the alternate universe's version. And I don't think the name change will discomfort the reader beyond the first sentence or so since this would be a different Flack, and thus need a different name to distinguish himself.

This specific Flack isn't one of those Flacks. This Flack doesn't have a name, he has a number: X6-697336635225 (make my day. Translate it into letters).

So aquiring a name would be an indication of character growth, right? That's a pretty cool thing to use, which makes me think Numerical!Flack might actually use his number as his own private method of addressing himself, or simply 'X6'. His use of it would indicate a lack of personality (in the beginning) and maybe there could be spots where he forgets to answer to 'Flack' because he isn't quite that person yet? (I'm just throwing things out here. You have such an interesting premise.)

Fanfiction is such that readers can pick up on subtle cues in body language and personality as the author writes it. We know who Don Flack is, and we know how he should act. The contrast would make great foreshadowing since the reader would know something was up, but not the how or why.

A quick question though, (I'm not as familiar with CSINY as I'd like to be) why wouldn't Flack refer to himself by his name? I don't know many people who call themselves by their surnames. I think you could get away with having Flack call himself 'Don' since it's more personal. Of course, it's all totally dependent on what type of POV you're using.

This sounds like a great series, with some very interesting twists and turns. I very much look forward to reading it. :)

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Thanks for dropping by, and thank you especially for the well-thought out reply. I appreciate it.

I'm not sure exactly how clear I made myself, and I don't think it was as clear as I would have liked. The "original" Flack (if you can call name one permutation of a character original in a universe that consists of multiple and parallel universes) never shows up beyond the first scene of the first story. The rest of the story shows X6-Flack as the main Flack, and the POV characters don't realize he's not the original Flack until about halfway through the series. My particular confusion came from trying to show scenes from his POV in the first story without giving away to the readers that he's not the original Flack. I have no idea how much sense I'm making.

So aquiring a name would be an indication of character growth, right? That's a pretty cool thing to use, which makes me think Numerical!Flack might actually use his number as his own private method of addressing himself, or simply 'X6'. His use of it would indicate a lack of personality (in the beginning) and maybe there could be spots where he forgets to answer to 'Flack' because he isn't quite that person yet? (I'm just throwing things out here. You have such an interesting premise.)

Thanks! One of the themes in the series I'm trying to work with is Flack's character growth, which is interesting because he's basically stealing his alter-ego's identity -- his name, his apartment, his rank, his job. But they both have very similar personalities and X6-Flack is trained to take advantages and use them, so it's easy to just go along as being who everyone says he is. It's easy to become who he says he is, as well, which brings up the question: is he being himself, for the first time in his life, or is he just stealing the other Flack's personality as well as his life? He's definitely trying to become the Flack all the others think he is, for reasons of his own.

I'm personally trying not to give too many things away, in case something changes, so I don't know if this really makes sense without the context.

A quick question though, (I'm not as familiar with CSINY as I'd like to be) why wouldn't Flack refer to himself by his name? I don't know many people who call themselves by their surnames. I think you could get away with having Flack call himself 'Don' since it's more personal. Of course, it's all totally dependent on what type of POV you're using.

Canon-Flack has never referred to himself as "Don" and the number of times others have done so could be counted on one hand, and they're all in situations of dire, dire peril. To me the use of "Don" rather than "Flack" completely throws me out of a story. I get the sense that he's totally divorced "Flack" from "Don Flack" for personal family reasons -- his father was also a Donald Flack, and they don't have the best of relationships. The show's always given me the feeling that Flack doesn't even think of himself as "Don" anymore -- if he's referred to so, it's like a bodycheck, trying to get his head in the game.

If I don't make sense, just ask, and I'll be happy to attempt and qualify. I don't know how well I'll succeed, but I'll try. *sheepish smile* I love talking, but I'm not always the most coherent of people.

This sounds like a great series, with some very interesting twists and turns. I very much look forward to reading it.

Thank you! I hope it lives up to expectations. *crosses fingers* I know AUs aren't everyone's cup of tea.

[(Anonymous)]

I love AUs! They're very tricky things to write, but I think they get to the core personality of a character in a way a canon story can't, by taking X character and putting X in a different position altogether. It's rather exciting really. :)

And I don't think you're incoherent. I think you're in the planning stages of your story, which allows for free flow of thought. Leave coherency for the refining stage of the writing process, I say.


The "original" Flack (if you can call name one permutation of a character original in a universe that consists of multiple and parallel universes) never shows up beyond the first scene of the first story. The rest of the story shows X6-Flack as the main Flack, and the POV characters don't realize he's not the original Flack until about halfway through the series. My particular confusion came from trying to show scenes from his POV in the first story without giving away to the readers that he's not the original Flack. I have no idea how much sense I'm making.

Oh! Okay, I see where you're going. Don't worry, you're totally making sense. :) That does sound like it would be difficult. I think...hmm, you say Flack himself is highly disassociated from his own name, perhaps as a rejection of his father's identity and as a way to assert his own. (Thank you for answering my question!) You could, maybe, use that in the first part with Numerical!Flack thinking about 'being Don Flack' as if it were a normal introspective piece? That way you can still use Flack as his name, but also add a certain amount of alienation and ambivalence.

There's also length. If you keep the Flack POV parts to a minimum, the reader won't have much time to know this isn't
original Flack beyond a mounting suspicion. Then, of course, if the Flack POV is used while he's alone or with a woman, then using 'he' would be look more natural. Then, you could simply have other characters refer to him as 'Flack' while the actual Numerical!Flack never does.

One of the themes in the series I'm trying to work with is Flack's character growth, which is interesting because he's basically stealing his alter-ego's identity -- his name, his apartment, his rank, his job.

Now that is VERY interesting, as well as the resulting struggle of 'is it his personality or that of the man he's impersonating.' It leads to a point where there has to be a reveal, right? Because Original Flack's personality is based on experience, on what he's seen and done and lived, while Numerical!Flack has none of those connections. There has to be a point where either his impersonation, or his conditioning fails or else he's not really an AU.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I love AUs! They're very tricky things to write, but I think they get to the core personality of a character in a way a canon story can't, by taking X character and putting X in a different position altogether. It's rather exciting really. :)

*nods frantically* I've been mostly writing AUs recently, because I'm not happy enough with canon to go anywhere with it. Also, I think it's my way of writing fic for other fandoms where I don't know enough of the canon to actually write in that canoon, so there's a lot of world crossover in my CSI:NY fic. This particular AU series could probably be summed up as a Stargate/Dark Angel crossover with parallel universes and the CSI:NY characters. Another writer, rageprufrock, in the SGA fandom, once said that, "The fact that the story is an alternate universe meant that to make the story believeable, it had to rely on characterization--which is always, always what truly drives plot, and not any outside influence," which is really, really true, so characterization is what I try pretty hard for.

There's also length. If you keep the Flack POV parts to a minimum, the reader won't have much time to know this isn't original Flack beyond a mounting suspicion. Then, of course, if the Flack POV is used while he's alone or with a woman, then using 'he' would be look more natural. Then, you could simply have other characters refer to him as 'Flack' while the actual Numerical!Flack never does.

I think this is actually one situation where my being not an introspective writer is actually going to come in handy. I tend to write a lot in dialogue, which is a bad habit I've been trying to get out of, but it usually gives a good sense of character. I also think I'll try not to use Flack's POV for a while (maybe not even until the reveal), which means the reader will be seeing from an outsider's POV, not knowing what's going on. I think, having finished the first Numerical Flack scene, that it's going to be obvious something's different -- but not necessarily what.

Now that is VERY interesting, as well as the resulting struggle of 'is it his personality or that of the man he's impersonating.' It leads to a point where there has to be a reveal, right? Because Original Flack's personality is based on experience, on what he's seen and done and lived, while Numerical!Flack has none of those connections. There has to be a point where either his impersonation, or his conditioning fails or else he's not really an AU.

Right, exactly. Numerical Flack is lucky because he's not working with people that knew the original Flack all that well, but sooner or later he's going to run into someone who did -- and he can only blame whatever dissociation he might have on memory loss for so long. They do have similar personalities because they're the same -- core person, I guess, both based on canon Det. Flack, but they're definitely not the same person. They have had similar experiences -- that's deliberate; they're both soldiers, both suffering from some kind of disciplinary trouble -- but they're not the same person. Flack's running on instinct during his impersonation, and when the reveal comes (due actually to his physical differences, not his psychological ones), that's the big question running through the core group. Was it all him, or was he pretending all along? He's not what he said he was, so is he even who he said he was?

Sorry!

[missmollyetc.livejournal.com]

Sorry! That comment was me. I forgot to log in. ::grins::