*snickers*
Jul. 16th, 2008 09:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Dude, you know what I suddenly want to write? Fic where Caspian gets temporarily transported to the Golden Age, if only for the Peter and Edmund banter.
Edmund: So, who is he?
Peter: He says he's the king of Narnia.
Edmund: Does this mean we've been having some sort of extended identity crisis? I know! You're really a fisherman, and you're so repressed about it that you can't go on the open sea without throwing up.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: Or a pigkeeper. You'd make a brilliant pigkeeper...
Peter: Well, he's clearly not the king of Narnia.
Edmund: No, he doesn't look very Narnian. Westerlands, probably.
Peter: Caspian isn't a Natarene name.
Edmund: Does sound a bit Telmarine, though.
Caspian: The Telmarines have been at peace with Narnia for two years now!
Peter: Did they get that message?
Edmund: No, they didn't. They were still raiding over our border last I heard. I think Lu's taking care of that.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: [unpronounceable gargle of foreign words]
Caspian: ...
Peter: Well, he doesn't seem like he speaks Telmarine.
Caspian: ...of your courtesy, my lords, perhaps this conversation would go easier if I knew who you were.
Edmund: Definitely not Telmarine. I think they use your profile for target practice in Telmar.
Peter: I am Peter the High King of Narnia, and this is my brother, King Edmund of Narnia.
Caspian: [brain explodes]
Edmund: [kindly] This is why you can't be the king of Narnia.
Edmund: So, who is he?
Peter: He says he's the king of Narnia.
Edmund: Does this mean we've been having some sort of extended identity crisis? I know! You're really a fisherman, and you're so repressed about it that you can't go on the open sea without throwing up.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: Or a pigkeeper. You'd make a brilliant pigkeeper...
Peter: Well, he's clearly not the king of Narnia.
Edmund: No, he doesn't look very Narnian. Westerlands, probably.
Peter: Caspian isn't a Natarene name.
Edmund: Does sound a bit Telmarine, though.
Caspian: The Telmarines have been at peace with Narnia for two years now!
Peter: Did they get that message?
Edmund: No, they didn't. They were still raiding over our border last I heard. I think Lu's taking care of that.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: [unpronounceable gargle of foreign words]
Caspian: ...
Peter: Well, he doesn't seem like he speaks Telmarine.
Caspian: ...of your courtesy, my lords, perhaps this conversation would go easier if I knew who you were.
Edmund: Definitely not Telmarine. I think they use your profile for target practice in Telmar.
Peter: I am Peter the High King of Narnia, and this is my brother, King Edmund of Narnia.
Caspian: [brain explodes]
Edmund: [kindly] This is why you can't be the king of Narnia.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 04:32 am (UTC)TOO FUNNY!
I don't know Narnia canon super well, apart from reading the books a couple of times and seeing the movies once or twice each, but this is too funny! :D
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 06:58 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 04:48 am (UTC)ROFL! Best thing to ever come out of Ed's mouth, and there's some serious competition for that title.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 07:00 am (UTC)(Seriously, this would be the most hilarious story ever, although this is about as far as my mental plotting goes. It starts out with Peter knocking Caspian out with the hilt of his dagger.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 11:18 am (UTC)Something we've all wanted to do at least once...
...or is that just me?
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Date: 2008-07-17 05:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 10:52 pm (UTC)*ahem*
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Date: 2008-07-17 11:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 05:12 am (UTC)*dies*
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Date: 2008-07-17 07:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 07:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 05:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-18 12:22 am (UTC)...
Date: 2008-07-17 05:38 am (UTC)_Em
Re: ...
Date: 2008-07-17 07:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 07:40 am (UTC)Is the old tongue of Telmar Spanish-y in Bedlamverse? I'm very charmed by the way fandom has so latched onto this bit of movie canon and ran with it. I mean, not as much as people have ran with Caspian/Susan and Caspian/Peter, but still. There are a few fics now that ponder or at least mention the Spanish language thing, one I read that mentions flamenco dancing, and there are probably other little Spain-y details in other fics that I can't remember.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 05:47 pm (UTC)Oh, this is interesting, I hadn't thought about this.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 08:30 pm (UTC)Edmund: [kindly] This is why you can't be the king of Narnia.
This is total EPIC!win. I died along with Caspian, seriously. XD
Hahahah, Edmund's last line is trufax. Totally.
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Date: 2008-07-17 08:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-17 09:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-18 04:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-18 08:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-22 02:04 pm (UTC)Re: the "unpronounceable gargle of words", it's more than likely that over there years, the language drifted enough to be nearly unrecognizable to the "modern" Caspian. Hell, I speak Spanish well enough myself to make our Mexican, Cuban, and Puerto Rican patients understand me; but I can't understand the South Americans and they look at me like wtf? I've never met an actual Spaniard, but I've heard they speak more differently still.
That's not even taking into account the class and regional differences there would be. So I don't see it as any problem that the Telmarine of the past wouldn't be very understandable to Caspian.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-22 06:54 pm (UTC)Yeah, I rambled on about my language theory up above to
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-22 08:18 pm (UTC)It's easy to think about language in terms of what gets added, by outside influences. But the *lack*-or withdrawal-of them is an influence, too.
Maybe there would be some shunning of certain words or phrases for everyday use, lest they invoked something not taken lightly-made holy-or as retroactive punishment? People wouldn't go throwing the name Jadis around, or swearing by the King of Summer, lightly, for example. But to know the words were holy, or to shun them, you'd have to *teach* them first, *then* establish the taboo against using them. Not use them around the Telmarines, either.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-22 09:46 pm (UTC)The islands are an interesting question. After all, they're part of Narnia, technically speaking, but they're so far away they can't have that much of a similarity in culture. And besides, they're ruled by humans. (Hi, Lewis, please to be making sense now.) The White Witch would have killed off all the humans in Narnia, and isolated it from the rest of the Narnia-world, the majority of which is ruled by humans.
But after the White Witch is defeated -- five years, maybe, till Narnia becomes a player in world politics, or at least can finally hold its own on the world stage? Crops are going to be screwed for at least a couple years while the weather patterns reset themselves (famine during the White Witch's time! She must have routed trade through Galma and Terebinthia; nothing was growing in Narnia, that's for sure), so one of the first things Peter would have wanted to establish would be trade relationships. Oh, great, Narnia's going to be in debt for a while too! Unless the White Witch has a stash of treasure somewhere that he can use and/or melt down for coinage.
Golden Age Narnia was probably both more and less centralized than modern Narnia. Accents, dialects, cultures -- this last is one of the things I've been playing with a little loosely in the five-POV fic, how what-was has broken down into what-is (naming conventions, clan structures, old rivalries, etc.) -- and this is going to be influenced as well by immigrants. Because humans moved into Narnia at some point -- refugees from the wartorn west, maybe? People from the islands?
This is so fascinating to think about! I kind of desperately want to write Golden Age Narnia now, not just have Edmund and Susan freak out at whether Peter is using Low Court or High Court formality. (High Court comes mainly from the north, where the oldest forests and the giants are; it's practiced by northern centaurs and those northern dryads and Peter loves High Court. Low Court's comes from the south of Narnia, probably originally from Calormen.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-23 05:12 pm (UTC)I wonder if she bothered about the islands at all, since she wasn't interested in *going* there? Would she want to claim them, and send unsupervised troops in, just because they should be her by right (in her opinion)? Given that they were sparsely inhabited, it would largly be land she was taking, and not using, while spending resources and diverting forces away from her main troops.
Golden Age Narnia sounds a bit like Rome in its glory. All roads lead to Cair Paravel, but there are dozens of different peoples banded together under the name of "Narnian", with their fealty to the throne and/or Aslan being the only thing that binds them together-and a language. I wonder-are Narnians *allowed* to believe in other religions, or none? Rome permitted it for a long time, though they tended to incorporate local beliefs into their pantheon. Does Aslan similarly assimilate others' myths (not *him*, necessarily, but do people ascribe things to him, I mean)? Makes me wonder how long the seeds of disaffection lay buried in the people before the Last Battle became inevitable. Just because they've *met* him doesn't mean they believe in him the way they should; and many Narnians never followed him. *muses*
What would the Pevensies do if they found out that the "bad" dwarfs, Minotaurs, Hags, werewolves, incubi, etc, were right in at least this much: Aslan means the people of Narnia no good, and is only controlling them for nefarious purposes. The White Witch might have been either a knowing or unknowing saviour...kind of flip-side, role reversal of the same story. *grins* It might take a long time to work through the story, but just imagine how they'd feel and what they'd do about it, finding all this out years after the fact.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-23 07:51 pm (UTC)Well, we know from LWW that she claims the islands, and I'd bet she has troops there holding them -- even if it's just land, she's going to need the crops to feed her people, because Narnia's definitely not going to be producing anything for a while. They've probably been hers for so long they've forgotten anything else, and if she's not holding winter there, too -- after all, she doesn't necessarily need all her troops in Narnia at one time, at least not until Aslan pulls together the resources of Narnia and builds his own army. It may be an occupied country, but still -- I've been watching The Winds of War and War and Rememberance miniseries, so I'm thinking of Nazi Germany (except for, uh, I don't know all that much about it).
I always think of Alexander's empire (which, I, um, also don't know much about), if only for how it fell apart after Alexander died. (Like Narnia after Peter vanished! My Peter is on part Alexander the Great, one part Queen Elizabeth I, and one part King Arthur.) But Rome, yeah. *thoughtful*
Well, Aslan would defnitely like everyone to think that all gods are him, and he is all gods, although I bet Narnia had religious freedom technically speaking. (This came up in "The False Knight", what with Aslan being the Sun of Galma and the High King/King of Narnia being the Son of the Sun. And the religion thing comes up in "In Constellated Wars", so I've been thinking about it.)
I was thinking that some centuries after the fall of the Golden Age, the Pevensies might not have been built up to minor deities themselves. (Like how Alexander was equivalent to Zeus/Jupiter, or something -- man, it's been a while since I read about this.) So somewhere in Narnia there's a cult/minor religion that worships the King of Summer and the Queen of Spring and at some point, I really need to come up with equivalent titles for Edmund and Lucy, although at this point I think I've run out of seasons, because you don't want to use autumn or winter, obviously.
They'd be pissed. *grin* And Peter would probably go on a rampage.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-24 04:05 am (UTC)I guess she would have *had* to keep the islands going, for food crops. Even evil flunky followers need to eat! *laughs*
Re: titles for the younger two...it depends on what you want them to be *for*. I'm trying to remember the cardinal directions they "represent"-west for Edmund, east for Lucy, wasn't it? King of Evening, Queen of Morning, paralleling each other like the other two? Night in Narnia isn't a sinister thing, because they celebrate things at night, have those dances and romps, very pagan, so "evening" wouldn't be negative. And "morning" is kind of new and joyful, for beginnings. *shrugs* Dunno if you can work with that. But yeah, I don't think the other seasons would work, because *nobody's* gonna want to worship "winter" for a long time, plus autumn is rather melancholy.
Yes, re: the "alternate" history of Narnia. Finding out they'd been tools for a maleficent being, or at least a very very selfish, manipulative one...and that they'd warred against a woman who, while not being pleasant or nice-because she was under siege and imperilled, hello!-was actually quite heroic. How could we twist some of the things that happened? Well...she turned some people into stone, why? Maybe to keep them safe from somebody else? Or yeah, they *could* have been spies. And why sacrifice Edmund, other than thinking he's a little spy and a tool for the Lion? Either that cold "for the greater good" motive-or what if it had been only a symbolic sacrific-or a blood bond, mingling his with hers, to fuel her power? An attempt to flush Aslan out?
Peter would definitely go on a rampage. *laughs* I'm sure the others would be right behind him. ENRAGED.
*eggs you on*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-24 06:58 am (UTC)Oh, I like those! Mind if I borrow them? Because right now I also have Silvertongue for Edmund (he riddled with dragons! These are the intelligent, talking Narnian kind, not the kind we see in Voyage, because everything else in Narnia can talk, after all), Strongheart and Quickfingers for Lucy (her friends call her Strongheart; everyone calls her Quickfingers, although I don't have my heart set on it. It's not dramatic enough), Heartsbane for Susan (enemies. definitely her enemies. after all, she's so beautiful and never did get married), and tentatively, Breakneck and Brightsteel for Peter. They must have all kinds of titles and nicknames besides their "official" titles -- different naming conventions among all the different races and clans, and then whatever their neighbors, enemies, and allies are going to call them. (And I hesitate bringing in the word "lion" anywhere. I mean, we don't have historical figures called "Godheart.")
Jadis was appointed by the Emperor-over-the-Sea, after all. She was only doing her duty.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-24 05:08 pm (UTC)Lucy, hmm...since she's not the innocent of the books in your world, having grown up to be fiercely caring but at the same time coldly practical, I'm not as sure. Focusing on her aspect as youngest, the *Valiant*, what would the Queen of Morning suggest...? The Renewer, patron of new beginnings after you've screwed up? Coming in age after Edmund, and being the healer-queen, it might work. Heartsease, to counter Susan's Heartsbane (great name, better than Heartbreaker, too cliched) and again, to suggest the healing cordial and her special ability to listen and sympathize with people. Dawnstrike, as in "the break of dawn" and the blows of her knives...? I see what you mean about Quickfinger-I know what you want to suggest, I just can't pinpoint another name right now to sound more...*flails*. MORE.
For Peter, do you think Steelbright sounds better? I'm just thinking of what they'll sound like aloud and how easy or difficult to spit out when you're bleeding after battle or nervous in High Court assembly. *laughs* Breakneck is good, has that "full-throttle" feeling he gives off...the Fireater! Something with fire or heat, or burning.
AU!Jadis, the Sinister Queen...reminds me of a story by Tanith Lee I read where (in an AU version of Snow White) the witch queen, who was good, called on the Angel Lucefiel to help her transform her shape, naming him as "the Sinister Hand of God", who is not evil but merely doing his God-appointed job. Of course it was more elegantly-phrased, but...the idea appeals to me, her being the Sinister Queen, the Left Hand of the Emperor-Over-the-Sea, doing her best by Narnia whether they like it or not, damn it. *fends off evil!Aslan, the Rebel Son*
You'd have to REALLY get into her head to re-interpret some of the mythology and explain her bitchiness, but...intriguing. *grins*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-24 10:07 pm (UTC)(Now I'm wondering if it's legitimate for me to go back and edit some of my earlier stories to put nicknames like this in. *grin*)
LUCY. MAKE SENSE. I'm trying to think about soething that could be her friends' or her enemies' name for her -- something that can be mocking or friendly depending on who's speaking. Dawnstrike seems too -- I don't know, cliche?
Thinking about it now, I rather like Bittersteel for Peter rather than Brightsteel. (Too friendly. *frowns*)
Maybe something friendly for Susan, too. Queen Susan the Gentle (ha HA), Queen of Spring -- water? Air? (I mean, there are four of them, we may as well go full out on cardinal points and elements.) Earth? (Peter's definitely fire, I think. Unless he's earth by virtue of being tied to the ground, but he does not have the temperament of earth, the lunatic. *fond*) Can you imagine the foreign legends that must have sprung up about Susan? Susan Heartsbane, who killed her lovers and ate their hearts and whose appetite (uh) could never be sated? Sort of a Lilith/succubus figure.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 02:46 am (UTC)The Elements they stand for don't necessarily have to be anything to do with how they relate to Narnia itself, but their personalities.
So...if Peter is fire (definitely), the Susan should be water, as they're the senior pair.
Plus, I'm thinking of a quote from an episode of Xena, where some guy commented to this beautiful woman who was very strong something about how strange it was that she'd *be* so strong, when she looked "as soft as water"...the woman replied "Soft as water-yet who can withstand the raging flood?" She knows how to handle the constant attention to her looks, diplomatically;yet will drop your ass if she needs to.
I was inclined to say earth for Edmund, due to his being so balanced and solid. (It would work better than it would work for Lucy, I think.) Plus, Edmund is Peter's "counterbalance" as a male/brother. He's the one people come to for advice in council, and the one who's "Just" rather than "fair"...the earth can be hard, too.
Lucy as air? Her adventurous spirit? Sorry to keep referencing others' work, but quoting stuff is how I link ideas...Lois McMaster Bujold has one of his characters say about his mother's influence on him and his father, who are from a very butch, soldierly culture, that she's "as necessary as air, which you don't notice until it's *gone*". She's easy to take for granted, I'd think, as the youngest, and this bright, happy personality that gets along with everyone; you don't realize how soothing it is to have her around to listen and sympathize-and do those little necessary, untidy things that nobody else can bring themselves to do, perhaps-until she's left.
Bittersteel is good. Better than Brightsteel, or Steelbright. Has that "tang" of "kicked my ass, damn it".
I love this kind of thing, it's why I could never get my own fics going-I'd have so much fun playing around with what to name who and *then* what happened, plot plot outline outline, that I'd forget to actually start *writing*. Well, that and the fact that they sucked, but hey. *grins*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 03:00 am (UTC)Poor Susan. Even thirteen hundred years later she's remembered as a heartbreaker. I wonder what the border country legends say about the Pevensies? Demon-like, evil figures in some of the enemy countries/previously conquered territories, maybe. (Like Calormen, for example. "King of Summer" is a curse, and errant young men are warned not to be too free with their favors or they might find themselves bedding Susan Heartsbane -- and not live out the night.)
Oooh, Narnian legends/fairytales. (Everyone thinks Cair Paravel is haunted -- and it totally is, just not by the Pevensies.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 10:54 am (UTC)It's true that there'd have to be sinister names as well as affectionate ones, because theire enemies would name them, too.
I found these, for the poisons:
http://members.allstream.net/~jaguar/30.html
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/poison.html
http://www.altnature.com/
The thing about herbal medicines is that they *can* be equally beneficial as harmful. If you were really obsessed *grins*, you could probably find names for them that meant something good *and* bad.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 09:39 pm (UTC)I am really very entranced with the poison idea. I think it happened during the year Peter was missing, and Susan didn't poison everybody, just, like, every other person. And when asked why she didn't kill them all (like Peter would have, only Peter would have hauled them up for high treason and executed them), Susan said, "Call it a woman's mercy."
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 10:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 10:53 pm (UTC)And during PC, someone (probably Reepicheep), goes, "Oh, it's such an honor to finally meet the great Queen Susan the Gentle!" and Susan stomps off. And everyone goes, "...?" because they think the name comes from someone else. Edmund kind of coughs and goes, "She got that name because she poisoned a group of rebels in Cair Paravel. One of them was her lover. Some of them were left alive to carry the tale back to their families." And Caspian goes, "...OH MY GOD," and Peter says, "If I'd been there, I would have just killed all of them, but Susan made more of an impression. And I wasn't there."
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 11:08 pm (UTC)Susan was in a mood, what can we say?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-25 11:46 pm (UTC)*vaguely inspired*