*snickers*

[bedlamsbard]

Dude, you know what I suddenly want to write? Fic where Caspian gets temporarily transported to the Golden Age, if only for the Peter and Edmund banter.

Edmund: So, who is he?
Peter: He says he's the king of Narnia.
Edmund: Does this mean we've been having some sort of extended identity crisis? I know! You're really a fisherman, and you're so repressed about it that you can't go on the open sea without throwing up.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: Or a pigkeeper. You'd make a brilliant pigkeeper...
Peter: Well, he's clearly not the king of Narnia.
Edmund: No, he doesn't look very Narnian. Westerlands, probably.
Peter: Caspian isn't a Natarene name.
Edmund: Does sound a bit Telmarine, though.
Caspian: The Telmarines have been at peace with Narnia for two years now!
Peter: Did they get that message?
Edmund: No, they didn't. They were still raiding over our border last I heard. I think Lu's taking care of that.
Caspian: ...
Edmund: [unpronounceable gargle of foreign words]
Caspian: ...
Peter: Well, he doesn't seem like he speaks Telmarine.
Caspian: ...of your courtesy, my lords, perhaps this conversation would go easier if I knew who you were.
Edmund: Definitely not Telmarine. I think they use your profile for target practice in Telmar.
Peter: I am Peter the High King of Narnia, and this is my brother, King Edmund of Narnia.
Caspian: [brain explodes]
Edmund: [kindly] This is why you can't be the king of Narnia.

Comments

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Unless you can pen your victims up in an enclosure of some kind and gas or burn them all, verifiably-there will *always* be survivors. Refugees must have scrambled for the various borders when the Witch began her drive for power, and it does seem reasonable that her effects would trickle off into an area of rugged wasteland that might not be as fertile as the heartland, but is at least free of her winter.

I wonder if she bothered about the islands at all, since she wasn't interested in *going* there? Would she want to claim them, and send unsupervised troops in, just because they should be her by right (in her opinion)? Given that they were sparsely inhabited, it would largly be land she was taking, and not using, while spending resources and diverting forces away from her main troops.

Golden Age Narnia sounds a bit like Rome in its glory. All roads lead to Cair Paravel, but there are dozens of different peoples banded together under the name of "Narnian", with their fealty to the throne and/or Aslan being the only thing that binds them together-and a language. I wonder-are Narnians *allowed* to believe in other religions, or none? Rome permitted it for a long time, though they tended to incorporate local beliefs into their pantheon. Does Aslan similarly assimilate others' myths (not *him*, necessarily, but do people ascribe things to him, I mean)? Makes me wonder how long the seeds of disaffection lay buried in the people before the Last Battle became inevitable. Just because they've *met* him doesn't mean they believe in him the way they should; and many Narnians never followed him. *muses*

What would the Pevensies do if they found out that the "bad" dwarfs, Minotaurs, Hags, werewolves, incubi, etc, were right in at least this much: Aslan means the people of Narnia no good, and is only controlling them for nefarious purposes. The White Witch might have been either a knowing or unknowing saviour...kind of flip-side, role reversal of the same story. *grins* It might take a long time to work through the story, but just imagine how they'd feel and what they'd do about it, finding all this out years after the fact.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the Long Winter started after the White Witch had already been in power for some years? After all, there's still a pretty significant population. More honey than vinegar, at least for the first decade or so, and then the Long Winter set in? *ponders*

Well, we know from LWW that she claims the islands, and I'd bet she has troops there holding them -- even if it's just land, she's going to need the crops to feed her people, because Narnia's definitely not going to be producing anything for a while. They've probably been hers for so long they've forgotten anything else, and if she's not holding winter there, too -- after all, she doesn't necessarily need all her troops in Narnia at one time, at least not until Aslan pulls together the resources of Narnia and builds his own army. It may be an occupied country, but still -- I've been watching The Winds of War and War and Rememberance miniseries, so I'm thinking of Nazi Germany (except for, uh, I don't know all that much about it).

I always think of Alexander's empire (which, I, um, also don't know much about), if only for how it fell apart after Alexander died. (Like Narnia after Peter vanished! My Peter is on part Alexander the Great, one part Queen Elizabeth I, and one part King Arthur.) But Rome, yeah. *thoughtful*

Well, Aslan would defnitely like everyone to think that all gods are him, and he is all gods, although I bet Narnia had religious freedom technically speaking. (This came up in "The False Knight", what with Aslan being the Sun of Galma and the High King/King of Narnia being the Son of the Sun. And the religion thing comes up in "In Constellated Wars", so I've been thinking about it.)

I was thinking that some centuries after the fall of the Golden Age, the Pevensies might not have been built up to minor deities themselves. (Like how Alexander was equivalent to Zeus/Jupiter, or something -- man, it's been a while since I read about this.) So somewhere in Narnia there's a cult/minor religion that worships the King of Summer and the Queen of Spring and at some point, I really need to come up with equivalent titles for Edmund and Lucy, although at this point I think I've run out of seasons, because you don't want to use autumn or winter, obviously.

They'd be pissed. *grin* And Peter would probably go on a rampage.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

It seems reasonable that she'd have tried taking over by persuasion, then intimidation, and *then* force. I've never thought about it before, but it's not likely she'd decide to conquer Narnia and then "whoosh!", snow-covered country from border to border...the thawing happened quickly, but it wasn't instantaneous. Plus, just being cold and wintery doesn't mean "death", either. As I pointed out to a friend I was discussing the Witch's Winter with, the Long Winter was only evil or frightening because it was unnatural and extended, meant to keep Aslan away-they had means of coping with it, to some degree, at least at first. Dried food stores, warm clothes, hothouses for forcing food crop-maybe not enough to feed the entire population, but it could have helped.

I guess she would have *had* to keep the islands going, for food crops. Even evil flunky followers need to eat! *laughs*


Re: titles for the younger two...it depends on what you want them to be *for*. I'm trying to remember the cardinal directions they "represent"-west for Edmund, east for Lucy, wasn't it? King of Evening, Queen of Morning, paralleling each other like the other two? Night in Narnia isn't a sinister thing, because they celebrate things at night, have those dances and romps, very pagan, so "evening" wouldn't be negative. And "morning" is kind of new and joyful, for beginnings. *shrugs* Dunno if you can work with that. But yeah, I don't think the other seasons would work, because *nobody's* gonna want to worship "winter" for a long time, plus autumn is rather melancholy.


Yes, re: the "alternate" history of Narnia. Finding out they'd been tools for a maleficent being, or at least a very very selfish, manipulative one...and that they'd warred against a woman who, while not being pleasant or nice-because she was under siege and imperilled, hello!-was actually quite heroic. How could we twist some of the things that happened? Well...she turned some people into stone, why? Maybe to keep them safe from somebody else? Or yeah, they *could* have been spies. And why sacrifice Edmund, other than thinking he's a little spy and a tool for the Lion? Either that cold "for the greater good" motive-or what if it had been only a symbolic sacrific-or a blood bond, mingling his with hers, to fuel her power? An attempt to flush Aslan out?

Peter would definitely go on a rampage. *laughs* I'm sure the others would be right behind him. ENRAGED.

*eggs you on*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

I wonder how long she was in Narnia (ruling? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Exactly when did Frank's line die out, I wonder, if no one in Narnia knows whether humans are real or not?)? I think it's pretty likely she set herself up as queen, and seemed pretty decent for a while, and then slowly tightened her grip. And then one winter spring just...never came. (It may dramatic to have snowfall in summer or something, but it's not necessary, and I bet it's overkill.)

Oh, I like those! Mind if I borrow them? Because right now I also have Silvertongue for Edmund (he riddled with dragons! These are the intelligent, talking Narnian kind, not the kind we see in Voyage, because everything else in Narnia can talk, after all), Strongheart and Quickfingers for Lucy (her friends call her Strongheart; everyone calls her Quickfingers, although I don't have my heart set on it. It's not dramatic enough), Heartsbane for Susan (enemies. definitely her enemies. after all, she's so beautiful and never did get married), and tentatively, Breakneck and Brightsteel for Peter. They must have all kinds of titles and nicknames besides their "official" titles -- different naming conventions among all the different races and clans, and then whatever their neighbors, enemies, and allies are going to call them. (And I hesitate bringing in the word "lion" anywhere. I mean, we don't have historical figures called "Godheart.")

Jadis was appointed by the Emperor-over-the-Sea, after all. She was only doing her duty.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

I like King of Evening for Edmund, particularly, since his clandestine work is secretive...it would be easy to make him into a sinister figure, in myth-and he's not. He's the Redeemed, the Shadowmaster (master of the shadows on your heart, conquering those base urges by appealing to help from those who care about you-well, *I* like it. *shuffles*)...he's the *Just*..."great in council", grave but humorous, and well-aware of the power of forgiveness and mercy. (Even if you don't subscribe to Aslan as "rescuer", his *family* forgave him, so the theme still holds, I think.)

Lucy, hmm...since she's not the innocent of the books in your world, having grown up to be fiercely caring but at the same time coldly practical, I'm not as sure. Focusing on her aspect as youngest, the *Valiant*, what would the Queen of Morning suggest...? The Renewer, patron of new beginnings after you've screwed up? Coming in age after Edmund, and being the healer-queen, it might work. Heartsease, to counter Susan's Heartsbane (great name, better than Heartbreaker, too cliched) and again, to suggest the healing cordial and her special ability to listen and sympathize with people. Dawnstrike, as in "the break of dawn" and the blows of her knives...? I see what you mean about Quickfinger-I know what you want to suggest, I just can't pinpoint another name right now to sound more...*flails*. MORE.


For Peter, do you think Steelbright sounds better? I'm just thinking of what they'll sound like aloud and how easy or difficult to spit out when you're bleeding after battle or nervous in High Court assembly. *laughs* Breakneck is good, has that "full-throttle" feeling he gives off...the Fireater! Something with fire or heat, or burning.


AU!Jadis, the Sinister Queen...reminds me of a story by Tanith Lee I read where (in an AU version of Snow White) the witch queen, who was good, called on the Angel Lucefiel to help her transform her shape, naming him as "the Sinister Hand of God", who is not evil but merely doing his God-appointed job. Of course it was more elegantly-phrased, but...the idea appeals to me, her being the Sinister Queen, the Left Hand of the Emperor-Over-the-Sea, doing her best by Narnia whether they like it or not, damn it. *fends off evil!Aslan, the Rebel Son*

You'd have to REALLY get into her head to re-interpret some of the mythology and explain her bitchiness, but...intriguing. *grins*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Unless he is a sinister figure in some myths. *thoughtful* After all, there are a lot of variations on various myths. King of Whispers, too, or the Whisperer -- I don't if you've read George R.R. Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice series, but he uses this type of names for his characters, so I'm trying to figure out what sounds good based on that. (He has characters nicknamed things like "Kingslayer" and "Littlefinger" and "Blackfish" and "Queen of Thorns.")

(Now I'm wondering if it's legitimate for me to go back and edit some of my earlier stories to put nicknames like this in. *grin*)

LUCY. MAKE SENSE. I'm trying to think about soething that could be her friends' or her enemies' name for her -- something that can be mocking or friendly depending on who's speaking. Dawnstrike seems too -- I don't know, cliche?

Thinking about it now, I rather like Bittersteel for Peter rather than Brightsteel. (Too friendly. *frowns*)

Maybe something friendly for Susan, too. Queen Susan the Gentle (ha HA), Queen of Spring -- water? Air? (I mean, there are four of them, we may as well go full out on cardinal points and elements.) Earth? (Peter's definitely fire, I think. Unless he's earth by virtue of being tied to the ground, but he does not have the temperament of earth, the lunatic. *fond*) Can you imagine the foreign legends that must have sprung up about Susan? Susan Heartsbane, who killed her lovers and ate their hearts and whose appetite (uh) could never be sated? Sort of a Lilith/succubus figure.

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

My first thought for Susan, from your comments? The Widowmaker. Something friendly that *doesn't* revolve around her looks? Hmm...there's a reason she's called "the Gentle", even in *your* Narnia, which is a bit more in-your-face than Lewis intended. *grins* So *why* was she given that name? Either it's ironic, because she massacred a bunch of people *snerk* or...there was an Event where she took care of a bunch of victims and was very tender with them. Something where it mattered enough to be commemorated-the Narnians would know to what it referred. I think the latter is better, because it's positive, not just death,you know?



The Elements they stand for don't necessarily have to be anything to do with how they relate to Narnia itself, but their personalities.

So...if Peter is fire (definitely), the Susan should be water, as they're the senior pair.

Plus, I'm thinking of a quote from an episode of Xena, where some guy commented to this beautiful woman who was very strong something about how strange it was that she'd *be* so strong, when she looked "as soft as water"...the woman replied "Soft as water-yet who can withstand the raging flood?" She knows how to handle the constant attention to her looks, diplomatically;yet will drop your ass if she needs to.

I was inclined to say earth for Edmund, due to his being so balanced and solid. (It would work better than it would work for Lucy, I think.) Plus, Edmund is Peter's "counterbalance" as a male/brother. He's the one people come to for advice in council, and the one who's "Just" rather than "fair"...the earth can be hard, too.



Lucy as air? Her adventurous spirit? Sorry to keep referencing others' work, but quoting stuff is how I link ideas...Lois McMaster Bujold has one of his characters say about his mother's influence on him and his father, who are from a very butch, soldierly culture, that she's "as necessary as air, which you don't notice until it's *gone*". She's easy to take for granted, I'd think, as the youngest, and this bright, happy personality that gets along with everyone; you don't realize how soothing it is to have her around to listen and sympathize-and do those little necessary, untidy things that nobody else can bring themselves to do, perhaps-until she's left.



Bittersteel is good. Better than Brightsteel, or Steelbright. Has that "tang" of "kicked my ass, damn it".



I love this kind of thing, it's why I could never get my own fics going-I'd have so much fun playing around with what to name who and *then* what happened, plot plot outline outline, that I'd forget to actually start *writing*. Well, that and the fact that they sucked, but hey. *grins*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Poison! Not that poison is very gentle, but it's, uh, subtle? Of course, Aslan named them all -- going from movie canon -- so there's no reason that's what they're known as later, except for Peter. (Can you imagine how hard he must be to announce at parties, if they're giving him all his titles? High King Peter of Narnia, King of Summer, High King of Narnia, Lord of Cair Paravel, Emperor of the Lone Isles, Son of the Sun of Galma, [insert other titles here].) Of course, I like the idea of "the Gentle" being an ironic title -- something about a "woman's touch", maybe. Like...a royal banquet for the rebel leaders, where everyone thought Susan was going to negotiate -- and then she poisoned them all. Ended the problem, anyway!

Poor Susan. Even thirteen hundred years later she's remembered as a heartbreaker. I wonder what the border country legends say about the Pevensies? Demon-like, evil figures in some of the enemy countries/previously conquered territories, maybe. (Like Calormen, for example. "King of Summer" is a curse, and errant young men are warned not to be too free with their favors or they might find themselves bedding Susan Heartsbane -- and not live out the night.)

Oooh, Narnian legends/fairytales. (Everyone thinks Cair Paravel is haunted -- and it totally is, just not by the Pevensies.)

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

They might not have names for the Elements, but if you're thinking of them being semi-worshipped centures down the road, they could be invoked in prayers by their Element.

It's true that there'd have to be sinister names as well as affectionate ones, because theire enemies would name them, too.


I found these, for the poisons:

http://members.allstream.net/~jaguar/30.html


http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/poison.html


http://www.altnature.com/



The thing about herbal medicines is that they *can* be equally beneficial as harmful. If you were really obsessed *grins*, you could probably find names for them that meant something good *and* bad.

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Nah, I was just thinking about things in quartets.

I am really very entranced with the poison idea. I think it happened during the year Peter was missing, and Susan didn't poison everybody, just, like, every other person. And when asked why she didn't kill them all (like Peter would have, only Peter would have hauled them up for high treason and executed them), Susan said, "Call it a woman's mercy."

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

Some of them could have been left with painful conditions...a few here and there who will always have pain in the gut, or diarrhea, or bloody coughs, etc. Just a little reminder that they *could* have died, too...which might actually have been *better* than what they ended up with. A woman's mercy, indeed. *evil grin*

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

Oooh. I think one of them might also have been Susan's lover before he, you know, got uppity.

And during PC, someone (probably Reepicheep), goes, "Oh, it's such an honor to finally meet the great Queen Susan the Gentle!" and Susan stomps off. And everyone goes, "...?" because they think the name comes from someone else. Edmund kind of coughs and goes, "She got that name because she poisoned a group of rebels in Cair Paravel. One of them was her lover. Some of them were left alive to carry the tale back to their families." And Caspian goes, "...OH MY GOD," and Peter says, "If I'd been there, I would have just killed all of them, but Susan made more of an impression. And I wasn't there."

[realpestilence.livejournal.com]

The ex-lover is the one who got stuck with bloody diarrhea FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! *laughs*


Susan was in a mood, what can we say?

[bedlamsbard.livejournal.com]

And then she charged the families to dispose of the bodies and transport back to their hometowns. Narnia has to make its money somehow!

It happened in a matter of minutes. Runemaker, Silena, and Deftfoot choked and died clawing at their throats, Anion fell face forward into his soup, Miscurl slid sideways off his chair, and Rehen simply collapsed. Feoras froze, but at the head of the table, Queen Susan, King Edmund, and Queen Lucy calmly continued eating and talking as if nothing had happened.

Samehan rose and threw his bowl aside. It smashed against the wall. "What is the meaning of this?" he demanded. "We have come here in peace --"

"Peace?" Queen Susan said at last. "You came here with demands, defying the word of the High King. Your peace would make a desert of Narnia, a mercenary of my brother, and whores of myself and my sister." She rose slowly from her seat, the chair at her right hand empty.

"You would not dare offer such suggestions if my brother was at Cair Paravel because you fear my brother. You fear what he would do to you, and with good reason, traitor. And you think that because I am a woman, my wrath will be less than his. This is my answer, and for your own lives -- call it a woman's mercy. And carry this message with you when you depart, and pass it to any other who would dare rise against Cair Paravel: There is but one sovereign in Narnia, and that is the High King Peter. And until such time as he returns, I rule in Cair Paravel."

Her usually clear voice was surprisingly husky as she roared this last, and before any other could speak, King Edmund drew his sword -- no, not his sword: the blade in his hand was Rhindon, the sword of Narnia -- with a rasp of metal and put it on the table in front of the High King's empty chair. A message. Familiar, well-known. The High King would have greeted them with that same blade bared across his lap. Feoras had expected the queen would do likewise, and when she hadn't, he'd thought that they would bend after all.

"Leave Cair Paravel while I still feel so merciful," Queen Susan said, quiet again, although Feoras could still hear her clearly. "And leave your dead. They will be dealt with according to the law."

*vaguely inspired*